Car Sound

[MunchZA]

Hi Guys

I'm pretty new to sound in general but especially car sound so please bear with me, I had an install done and about a month later my sub blew

Car: Renault Clio 3 2008

Running some old gear:

Phoenix Gold X100.4 - http://www.soundslimited.co.za/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=117
JBL GTO1214d Sub - http://uk.jbl.com/product-detail-new-jbl/gto1214d.html
Stock co-axials ( i think are wired straight on to the head unit )
and Pioneer BT Headunit - http://www.rivoniacarsoundshop.co.za/Product?product_id=10903&category_id=1422

Now i'm not sure why the sub blew, I did have the head unit turned up no doubt. But I have a few questions.

1. Are the output of that sub and amp matched? Should they have informed that a monoblock amp would be required to run a sub with that power rating?

2. It is a DVC and it looked like they just wired 1 coil in series onto the sub channel, given the voice coil and the amp have the same impedance of 4 ohms I imagine this is correct?(hope this is right and i don't sound like a right idiot)

3. I am no expert on matching RMS power ratings and i have read some contradicting opinions on whether underpowering a speaker will damage it, with not enough headroom on the amp if you over amplify the sound wave it clips and can cause speaker damage (this is what I imagine happened)

I know for a fact the sub is blown, coil is roasted smelt like dissapointment. Amp seems good still running my 6x9 and coaxials for now.

Im going to stop rambling now cause im not even sure that all makes sense.

Basically I would like to fix the install myself get a new sub. Install a mono block amp for the sub if need be?
Is there a way to test the amp because the guy at the shop did mention there was something "funny" with the gain on the amp... that is so descriptive but I don't know if those were just excuses for a bad setup.

Wouldn't want to just reinstall a new sub and blow it again though because of the amp, and from what of heard that sub should be able to take more of a pounding. If anyone could enlighten or educate me a bit I would be greatly appreciative.

Even a reliable contact who can help me fix up the install would be great

 

[bandooq]

Not another sound thread


// Smacks colleague on head //

 

[MunchZA]

Not another sound thread


// Smacks colleague on head //

Did i do something wrong?

 

[Colin62]

Did i do something wrong?

Well, your sub didn't blow itself you know...

 

[ost]

Need more info:

How was the sub wired?

What type of box was the sub in? (Ported/ Sealed, Size)

Most subs blow because they aren't wired properly or the box they put in is incorrect. For me if you running a 4ch amp, it is safest to run a SVC (single voice coil) Sub.

 

[c3n0byt3]

Yes the PG100.4 would be under-powering. It can give you 200W bridged regardless of ohm.
Since you seem to have run it non-bridged you would've been giving the sub max 100W RMS.
Not sure if that led to your sub being blown.

My advice would be to keep the PG100.4 (unless you really do find something wrong with it) and run a 200W sub in a vented enclosure.
Should still sound good in your hatchback.

Ideally the JBL GTO1214d is meant to go with the PG200.4.

 

[MunchZA]

Well, your sub didn't blow itself you know...

You must be fun at parties... lol

ost
Need more info:

How was the sub wired?

What type of box was the sub in? (Ported/ Sealed, Size)

Most subs blow because they aren't wired properly or the box they put in is incorrect. For me if you running a 4ch amp, it is safest to run a SVC (single voice coil) Sub.

Thanks for the replies, the sub was in quite a large ported box takes up half by clio boot not sure of exact measurements. It was wired with one coil in series straight onto the sub channel (unbridged).

Pic:

I am planning on getting an SVC now

c3n0byt3
Yes the PG100.4 would be under-powering. It can give you 200W bridged regardless of ohm.
Since you seem to have run it non-bridged you would've been giving the sub max 100W RMS.
Not sure if that led to your sub being blown.

My advice would be to keep the PG100.4 (unless you really do find something wrong with it) and run a 200W sub in a vented enclosure.
Should still sound good in your hatchback.

Ideally the JBL GTO1214d is meant to go with the PG200.4.

Will keep the PG100, would a quick bench test with a speaker be sufficient to make sure the amp isnt clipping any signals or would i need to get it tested by some-one?

With a 200W RMS SVC would i need to put the amp into bridged mode to supply 200W per channel?
Or would running a separate monoblock amp be ideal?

 

[c3n0byt3]

The PG should be offerring clean power, but there was a bad batch going around at one point with bad soldering.
Though I think if that was the case you'd have noticed it earlier.
Also make sure your deck is giving it a good strong signal.
Your deck puts out max 2v on the preouts and the PGs do best at higher than 5v. This may be why you need to up the gains more than normal.
But that 2v should be fine.
Also make sure you haven't connected the deck's direct drive sub output to the amp's input. Unlikely that's the way it's been set up but you never know these days.

Yes you would have to use the bridge to get out 200W from the amp. Leaving you with 2x100W channels in the front for your splits etc.
Would be great if you could find a 2ohm 200W SVC. Or a DVC (down to 2ohm) would work as well.
The PG Xenon amps are apparently over engineered, so are probably giving you a bit more than 200W on that bridge.

Running a seperate monoblock would be ideal yes.
The PG100.4 is class AB, good for splits etc. A Class D is better for subs.
And with a seperate monoblock you can use much more powerful subs.
The only problem is that I don't think your Renault's power system would handle that set up.

 

[MunchZA]

I am running a capacitor with my current setup even, but i will look into everything you mentioned and get a decent 200W SVC once i have confirmed the amp is ok and nothing else is wrong with the wiring.

Can think about monoblock amps and upgrading to bigger and better things later, for now i'm kinda on a budget.

Appreciate the help, thanks c3n0

 

[ost]

According to the specs the sub would have worked fine with the amp (I'm in the camp that feels underpowering is fine as long as the power is clean)

I'm thinking it was more installation issues than equipment failure. Both coils of the sub should have been used (connected in parallel) which would have presented a 2ohm load to the amp. This connected to the bridged channel would have worked well.

Also check the amp settings: The channels running the sub, was it filtered down to Low Pass? (LPF)

There should be no vocals/high freq from the sub, that will kill a sub quicker than anything.

Is the box secure? If it fell over while the sub was playing it could have also killed it.

 

[MunchZA]

According to the specs the sub would have worked fine with the amp (I'm in the camp that feels underpowering is fine as long as the power is clean)

I'm thinking it was more installation issues than equipment failure. Both coils of the sub should have been used (connected in parallel) which would have presented a 2ohm load to the amp. This connected to the bridged channel would have worked well.

Also check the amp settings: The channels running the sub, was it filtered down to Low Pass? (LPF)

There should be no vocals/high freq from the sub, that will kill a sub quicker than anything.

Is the box secure? If it fell over while the sub was playing it could have also killed it.

Box didnt ever fall over, low pass filter was on, but from what i saw of the wiring in the box it is impossible that they wired the coils in parallel, so yea. In terms of under powering but keeping the power clean, is that all controlled with amp gain or head unit volume or just listening for audible clipping and avoiding it?

 

[mintydroid]

That's good quality equipment sounds fishy that the sub blew.

Where you playing it loud alot and heard even a little distortion?

Is that box to spec? Ported boxes lend the sub to over extend. It doesn't have the cushion of a sealed box.

 

[c3n0byt3]

According to the specs the sub would have worked fine with the amp (I'm in the camp that feels underpowering is fine as long as the power is clean)

True, but in this case there may be more to it.
That sub is meant to be played hard. No doubt it was sold as this.
The result with this equipment may have been underwhelming, due to underpowering and the PG requiring a stronger signal.
If someone without experience were to set this up, they would increase the gain and at higher volumes this might present a problem.
And yeh running the GTO at 2ohm might have saved it.

@MunchZA, were the gains set at 2 or .2?

 

[ost]

Running it at 2ohm would have also given it more power as well allowing it to play harder with less effort from the amp.

Getting a clean signal from the headunit will be your first step, you have speakers running off the headunit so increase the HU volume until it distorts, make a note of that volume and turn it down a bit, with the amp off (disconnect the remote wire)

Make use of a nice well recorded track (CD) or good quality mp3 to do this.

Now with the amp reconnected play the same track at a volume lower than when it started distorting and set the gain for the speakers connected to the amp.

As for the box, as mentioned it will have to be correct for the sub being used, sealed boxes are more forgiving and also take up less space.

Whats your budget and where are you based (Can point you in the right direction)

 

[ahoudet]

Sorry for the hijack... What does an average car sound including installation cost these days?

 

[MunchZA]

Hey ost,

No idea what the gains were set to, at the time of install i knew absolutely nothing, bought the equipment and ported box off my mate( can only assume the box was made to spec for him initially, as im using the same sub and box).
I never played it loud alot to the point of distortion only in this specific case when it blew i was going a bit nutty.

Based in JHB sort of Woodmead area, I have had some suggestions of Tremor Audio? Good rep?
Would like to keep it around R3000 to get a new sub and fix up the install get it all tuned up correctly (maybe a monoblock amp if its within budget).
We dig the bassy **** like drum n bass, deep house and the likes (not sure if that was the reason for my mate getting a ported box - punchier bass)

Happy to take it in to some-one experienced would just like to be involved a bit as the last guys didn't even communicate with me regarding how or why the sub blew, no interest shown.

 

[MunchZA]

Sorry for the hijack... What does an average car sound including installation cost these days?

Guessing around 8k entry level man, maybe a bit less esp if you use your stock co-axials

 

[Bryn]

Sorry for the hijack... What does an average car sound including installation cost these days?

I spent around R8k and I love my sound system. JBL speakers that sound pretty good to my ears, JBL amp that hasn't given any issues, Rockford Fosgate sub that kicks you in the kidneys and a Sony head unit that has loads of settings, a big display, can flip forward to take CD's if necessary and has colourful dancing bars that seem to hypnotise the occupants of my car.

 

[c3n0byt3]

Would be interested to know who did the install.
Sure, Tremor Audio is good, and they can set it up fine. I think they specialize in headunits etc.

If drum and bass is what you listen to then the PG100.4 may not be the best choice.
Maybe a small Class D to run a sub would be better, and maybe a small 4 channel for mids/splits.
The PG100.4 is great for running splits (passive or active) and mids.
Guys using it to run a sub are usually interested in tamer music and volumes.

Also check out the SnS forum for more advice.

 

[MunchZA]

Im very sad my JBL sub blew, it was a big boy, made my brain rattle around in my head. R.I.P (Rest in Bass)

Wouldnt mind any suggestions on a new sub to match my system, got no idea of sound brands and their reputations.

Would be interested to know who did the install.
Sure, Tremor Audio is good, and they can set it up fine. I think they specialize in headunits etc.

If drum and bass is what you listen to then the PG100.4 may not be the best choice.
Maybe a small Class D to run a sub would be better, and maybe a small 4 channel for mids/splits.
The PG100.4 is great for running splits (passive or active) and mids.
Guys using it to run a sub are usually interested in tamer music and volumes.

Also check out the SnS forum for more advice.

So the PG 100 is fine to run the co axials and 6.9s as i understand?
Need to invest in a D class and sub, how does this affect my current wiring will the D class run off the same capacitor?(sorry for the noob question)

Will give tremor audio a call and see