CERN: New evidence for Global Warming

[agerbon]

If humans wanted to they can kill earth off so that nothing ever lives on it again. Are you saying it's not possible?

Yes I'm sure earth will recover once humans have left. But if we where to make everything extinct then nothing can come to life again.

Nope it's not possible. Human arrogance though makes him think he can. Even if we bombed the all surface of the planet with nuclear weapons some life would still make it through. Not all life in this planet is weak to radiation like humans are you see.

However a scenario like that as virtually no chance in happening not to that extreme. I would be more worried about Yellowstone volcano going off then the idea of humans denting the planet.

 

[Pitbull]

Nope it's not possible. Human arrogance though makes him think he can. Even if we bombed the all surface of the planet with nuclear weapons some life would still make it through. Not all life in this planet is weak to radiation like humans are you see.

However a scenario like that as virtually no chance in happening not to that extreme. I would be more worried about Yellowstone volcano going off then the idea of humans denting the planet.

You make a very good point

I do believe that once humans have been removed Earth will repair itself. It's just sad that extinct things will still be that.... Extinct.

 

[agerbon]

Well said. The fossil fuel proponents are taking such a short-term, profit-driven view. Can’t they see that in a few years their profits would be moot?

Tell me do you drive a car? If the answer is yes then you just as guilty as the oil companies. They are driven by demand not profit. If there was no demand for it there would be no oil companies.

Then again oil as integrated it self into our way of life too well. If we just stopped searching for oil and didn't get something to replace it. The chances are that the human population would drop drastically and quick.

 

[killadoob]

Tell me do you drive a car? If the answer is yes then you just as guilty as the oil companies. They are driven by demand not profit. If there was no demand for it there would be no oil companies.

Then again oil as integrated it self into our way of life too well. If we just stopped searching for oil and didn't get something to replace it. The chances are that the human population would drop drastically and quick.

We drive cars because have no choice. Where are cheap electric cars? Maybe i can go off and magically pull one out my arse or perhaps maybe the government with all it's power could force them to be made thus giving me the option to take one. Can you see how people in power can influence the world more than a single electric car pulled out someone's arsehole?

The reality is the world reflects the people who run it not the people who live in it, we are the way we are because we have no choice. Where is my choice to choose an electric car? Why do countries spend trillions on war while the world starves and lives in poverty and then those same countries go dump all their crap in those poor starving countries. Sadly if the world had leaders who cared more about humans and life than money we might have a chance. The sad thing about humans is we don't even care about each other so why on earth would we care if we pollute the planet i mean as you point out an asteroid could do more damage so we may as well try our hardest because we are arrogant and think polluting is a bad thing.

 

[agerbon]

We drive cars because have no choice. Where are cheap electric cars? Maybe i can go off and magically pull one out my arse or perhaps maybe the government with all it's power could force them to be made thus giving me the option to take one. Can you see how people in power can influence the world more than a single electric car pulled out someone's arsehole?

The reality is the world reflects the people who run it not the people who live in it, we are the way we are because we have no choice. Where is my choice to choose an electric car? Why do countries spend trillions on war while the world starves and lives in poverty and then those same countries go dump all their crap in those poor starving countries. Sadly if the world had leaders who cared more about humans and life than money we might have a chance. The sad thing about humans is we don't even care about each other so why on earth would we care if we pollute the planet i mean as you point out an asteroid could do more damage so we may as well try our hardest because we are arrogant and think polluting is a bad thing.

There is always a choice. Always!

The problem we have today as nothing to do with the planet. The problem is us! We don't want responsibility over anything. We too quick to blame our leaders for our own faults. We live in a society where economical growth is the most important thing. It's so important that manufactures have to use controlled obsolescence to keep the economy going. (So people can keep buying the newer items) The waste of natural resources that happens through this process must be phenomenal. Yet if you change it economies would immediately fail. Imagine buying clothes, furniture, etc, that would last a life time. Good, no? Well not in this paradigm of ours.

An electric car wouldn't change this at all either. They would still be forced to have controlled obsolescence because if they didn't the business would fail. So it's not just our technology that needs to change. Our thinking needs to change as well.

Consent is the the problem and we gave our consent a long time ago. It brought us great wealth for a while and now we either grow up or live with the repercussions.

 

[WilD_CaT]

"Controlled obsolescense"? Too much Zeitgeist.

Companies are perfectly entitled to do this. It is their property which they offer to you and you don't have to take it. Moreover, companies who's products start breaking soon after the warranty wears out, will start losing business to companies whoes products don't bring.

There are always downsides to decisions that the rest of society doesn't want, I.E. there are downsides to not meeting consumer demand as others will benefit from meeting consumer demand.

Moreover I think technology moves so quickly these days, and people like having the latest thing, it is arguably not a good idea to spend more time/money to make things last forever when I might want to replace it in a year or two or three at the most in any case.

 

[agerbon]

"Controlled obsolescense"? Too much Zeitgeist.

Companies are perfectly entitled to do this. It is their property which they offer to you and you don't have to take it. Moreover, companies who's products start breaking soon after the warranty wears out, will start losing business to companies whoes products don't bring.

There are always downsides to decisions that the rest of society doesn't want, I.E. there are downsides to not meeting consumer demand as others will benefit from meeting consumer demand.

Moreover I think technology moves so quickly these days, and people like having the latest thing, it is arguably not a good idea to spend more time/money to make things last forever when I might want to replace it in a year or two or three at the most in any case.

No, I actually didn't get it from Zeitgeist. I have seen that term being used many times before else where. Is there a better way to phrase such a process?

I didn't say they weren't entitled (I share your libertarian views btw) but are they producing more pollution (let alone the waste of energy and raw materials) due to it, hell yea. Such a system is not sustainable for sure, but what else is it affecting?

You see I don't buy into this tax carbon thing not when I see how the industry works. If indeed the cause for climate change at this present moment is being caused by us humans then we need to understand why our industry is creating such pollution.

 

[bekdik]

I have a bigger concern about sun generated radiation.

The magnetic shroud which protects us by diverting most of this radiation is shifting at accelerating rates. At some point radiation wil not be diverted and we will feel the full affect. The ozone hole will be insignificant by comparison ...

 

[agerbon]

I have a bigger concern about sun generated radiation.

The magnetic shroud which protects us by diverting most of this radiation is shifting at accelerating rates. At some point radiation wil not be diverted and we will feel the full affect. The ozone hole will be insignificant by comparison ...

I wouldn't if I where you. For there is nothing we can do if that happens. We can however change our relation to our planet and treat it better.

 

[WilD_CaT]

No, I actually didn't get it from Zeitgeist. I have seen that term being used many times before else where. Is there a better way to phrase such a process?

I didn't say they weren't entitled (I share your libertarian views btw) but are they producing more pollution (let alone the waste of energy and raw materials) due to it, hell yea. Such a system is not sustainable for sure, but what else is it affecting?

You see I don't buy into this tax carbon thing not when I see how the industry works. If indeed the cause for climate change at this present moment is being caused by us humans then we need to understand why our industry is creating such pollution.

Apologies, seen the term too often used in Zeitgeist context.

 

[Hard Rain]

No, I actually didn't get it from Zeitgeist. I have seen that term being used many times before else where. Is there a better way to phrase such a process?

Engineered redundancy is the phrase I'm most familiar with, and it strikes me as fallacious to be honest. In the past appliances were "built to last" because they were a hard sell. It actually wasn't easy convincing a suburban family to fork-out what was considerable dough back then to buy a dishwasher if they had a cheap maid or a stay-at-home mom. Besides, the redundancy doesn't have to be engineered. If people have more disposable income they'll eventually buy new stuff. The thing is, today, appliances and electronics have become so cheap people don't really have in mind for the things to last for years and years; they figure it would've been affordable for them to get new stuff in any case.

 

[MightyMuffinMan]

Why they still collecting evidence for something thats proven????

 

[WilD_CaT]

Why they still collecting evidence for something thats proven????

No scientific theory can ever technically be proven using induction.

Induction is the process of theorising, gathering evidence in limited circumstances and infering the evidence gathered essentially holds true universally.

E.G. Gravity, it is not possible to test everything with mass in the known universe to prove gravity is a universal truth, however based on experience/observations no evidence has ever been found to dispute such a theory.

Moreover, even if we missed some minor details on the theory of gravity (Can't know everything), our understanding is sufficient and more importantly useful, we can use what we think we know to do a great many things, what does it matter if we don't every single "i" dotted and "t" crossed?

As long as our understanding and knowledge increases, it helps.

However Ghoti doesn't seem to like logic, or deduction, which is the only method that can conclusively prove anything.

I believe I posted an excerpt in another thread about this.

Deduction concerns itself with proof, induction concerns itself with evidence.

 

[Palimino]

Moreover I think technology moves so quickly these days, and people like having the latest thing, it is arguably not a good idea to spend more time/money to make things last forever when I might want to replace it in a year or two or three at the most in any case.

Yes, it is not only technology obsolescence (a big factor) but it is the continual striving by Industrial Engineers to lower the production price to gain competitive advantage. Through Failure Mode Analysis, I feel some production corners are being shaved too closely and too many assumptions are being made about the consumer and their relation to the product. There is some clever design in the never-ending quest to lower production costs, however.

 

[bubbatentoe]

"Why they still collecting evidence for something thats proven????"

It boggles the mind how the doomsday prophets consistently ignore the effects of the sun, cloud cover, water vapor & oceanic Co2 release, only to concentrating on man made C02.

 

[Wimbo]

We drive cars because have no choice. Where are cheap electric cars? Maybe i can go off and magically pull one out my arse or perhaps maybe the government with all it's power could force them to be made thus giving me the option to take one. Can you see how people in power can influence the world more than a single electric car pulled out someone's arsehole?

The reality is the world reflects the people who run it not the people who live in it, we are the way we are because we have no choice. Where is my choice to choose an electric car? Why do countries spend trillions on war while the world starves and lives in poverty and then those same countries go dump all their crap in those poor starving countries. Sadly if the world had leaders who cared more about humans and life than money we might have a chance. The sad thing about humans is we don't even care about each other so why on earth would we care if we pollute the planet i mean as you point out an asteroid could do more damage so we may as well try our hardest because we are arrogant and think polluting is a bad thing.

What absolute rubbish. Of course you have a choice. Let's consider the most common scenario: driving between home and work and back. Some of your choices are:

• Ride a bicycle
• Ride a motorbike
• Walk
• Rollerskate
• Skateboard
• Use a kiddy's push scooter. They do make them big enough for adults
• Use a kiddy's motorised push scooter - battery or IC engine, Ditto
• Share your car
• Share someone else's car
• Move closer to work
• Work closer to home
• Work from home
• Telecommute
• Don't work
• Live at work
• Change your job
• Use public transport
• Use a taxi

Because you're too intellectually lazy to consider alternatives, you want everyone to be "forced" to do something that YOU think is the right thing to do?

Puleese

If you really think that the only alternative that you have is buying an electric car, then stop whining and go out and buy one. They're on the market. They're not cheap, but then very few cars are cheap.

What influences the world is individual people making their own individual choices. Choice creates demand. Demand creates supply. Volume creates price reductions. The world moves on, changing every day.

 

[killadoob]

You want me to go ride a bicycle to go see clients anywhere from 20-300km's away LOL. Wait the best one is to quit my job bwhahahaha

Yea great fking plan, quit your job and ride a bicycle.

You must be on crack bud.

 

[Wimbo]

You want me to go ride a bicycle to go see clients anywhere from 20-300km's away LOL. Wait the best one is to quit my job bwhahahaha

Yea great fking plan, quit your job and ride a bicycle.

You must be on crack bud.

Oh, I see. You want a cheap electric car that will do 300 km? And it's a conspiracy by the evil oil companies that's keeping them off the market, right?

Oh, and BTW, I have either done or know someone who has done everything on that list. You may not like some of the choices, but you certainly do have choices. Keep an open mind, "bud".

 

[killadoob]

Oh, I see. You want a cheap electric car that will do 300 km? And it's a conspiracy by the evil oil companies that's keeping them off the market, right?

Oh, and BTW, I have either done or know someone who has done everything on that list. You may not like some of the choices, but you certainly do have choices. Keep an open mind, "bud".

Dude the oil companies killed of the electric car, you really need to read up a bit more.

Are you one of those people who believe governments don't care about money? If we went electric right and we only used 5% of the oil we do now, think about the impact that would have. Countries would go bankrupt over night.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0489037/synopsis

Watch it so you can perhaps understand what happened to the electric car.

 

[Arthur]

Oi, killa. Stop stirring. You know it wasn't Big Oil but the See Eye Aye that killed cheap electric cars.

I'm sure you can find the RT interview.