China could collapse the US Dollar

I chuckle everytime I read your name. STRONGTURD! ha

Anyways... BOT - probably can and will some day just to spit the US.
 
vespax said:
I chuckle everytime I read your name. STRONGTURD! ha
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Rest assured that my handle was not just randomly chosen; it does have a disctinct meaning. But I digress...

I find it ironic that the USA, for all their military might, is really at the mercy of the Chinese. If the Chinese decide to pick up the phone tomorrow and move all their money out of US T-bills into Euros, we'll have a global recession of note. The US economy might literally collapse.

Unfortunately this ailing dinosaur would probably be willing to nuke anybody it sees fit, should things ever escalate to that point. It is really in everybody's best interest to keep the dollar artificially propped up. How long this unsustainable can continue is an open question, though. Interesting times.
 
StrongTurd said:
Rest assured that my handle was not just randomly chosen; it does have a disctinct meaning. But I digress...

I find it ironic that the USA, for all their military might, is really at the mercy of the Chinese. If the Chinese decide to pick up the phone tomorrow and move all their money out of US T-bills into Euros, we'll have a global recession of note. The US economy might literally collapse.

Unfortunately this ailing dinosaur would probably be willing to nuke anybody it sees fit, should things ever escalate to that point. It is really in everybody's best interest to keep the dollar artificially propped up. How long this unsustainable can continue is an open question, though. Interesting times.
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Yes and just to think a few years ago the american economy was in surplus. Who do we need to thank for 'a war without end,' and a debt-ridden american economy?
 
StrongTurd said:
Rest assured that my handle was not just randomly chosen; it does have a disctinct meaning. But I digress...

I find it ironic that the USA, for all their military might, is really at the mercy of the Chinese. If the Chinese decide to pick up the phone tomorrow and move all their money out of US T-bills into Euros, we'll have a global recession of note. The US economy might literally collapse.

Unfortunately this ailing dinosaur would probably be willing to nuke anybody it sees fit, should things ever escalate to that point. It is really in everybody's best interest to keep the dollar artificially propped up. How long this unsustainable can continue is an open question, though. Interesting times.
Click to expand...

I think even China knows that a slow and controlled fall of the US economy is best, even for them. They can control the failure rate, while managing their rise. Sneeky people over there. Oh, and they are getting the minerals from your backyard while they're at it. :(

kilo39 said:
Yes and just to think a few years ago the american economy was in surplus. Who do we need to thank for 'a war without end,' and a debt-ridden american economy?
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Bush? Either way, the US dug themselves into it decades ago. Clinton did well to fix some stuff, but the overall debt burden was high even after his surplus.
 
But as you say it would be crazy for China to do that
 
kilo39 said:
Ag pleaze.
Look at StrongTurds graph:
Who would we thank? Clinton.
GB = war mongering imbecile
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Not sure what you mean? Clinton did right or wrong?

Clinton did good work on budget controls, but he also opened a lot of trade with China, so he could be indirectly responsible for some of the situation now with US$ reserves in China, loss of manufactoring jobs in US, etc.
 
vespax said:
Not sure what you mean? Clinton did right or wrong?

Clinton did good work on budget controls, but he also opened a lot of trade with China, so he could be indirectly responsible for some of the situation now with US$ reserves in China, loss of manufactoring jobs in US, etc.
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And this is the tragedy. Clinton managed a massive downsizing of the economy (end of the cold war and weapons into prams.)

George Bush reversed this with eternal war and massive debt (oh but we note which companies are profiteering.)

American debt is a product of its policies (nothing to do with China.)
 
that's why for all the cigar comments, I still think he was a decent president in many ways.

Bush... well I moved to CT shortly after his re-election. ;)

American debt... sure lots of it, but having the default world currency being the dollar has it's benefits and as noted above, it's downfalls.
 
vespax said:
Not sure what you mean? Clinton did right or wrong?

Clinton did good work on budget controls, but he also opened a lot of trade with China, so he could be indirectly responsible for some of the situation now with US$ reserves in China, loss of manufactoring jobs in US, etc.
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Yes a trade surplus !!!

Fact is Clinton did good for the economy whereas Bush has been all bad.
 
StrongTurd said:
Rest assured that my handle was not just randomly chosen; it does have a disctinct meaning. But I digress...

I find it ironic that the USA, for all their military might, is really at the mercy of the Chinese. If the Chinese decide to pick up the phone tomorrow and move all their money out of US T-bills into Euros, we'll have a global recession of note. The US economy might literally collapse.

Unfortunately this ailing dinosaur would probably be willing to nuke anybody it sees fit, should things ever escalate to that point. It is really in everybody's best interest to keep the dollar artificially propped up. How long this unsustainable can continue is an open question, though. Interesting times.
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Unfortunately for you, the US is not at the mercy of the CHinese. The factories which churn out product for US markets were paid for with US dollars, in fact the US could turn off the tap and China would sink in minutes. However US investements in China would be jeopardised. If the west stops buying cheap shoddy Chinese products, China will have a major problem. The US will recover, China will not, in fact what may happen is a civil war where the Commie run government is overthrown in a mass uprising as the economy plummets or the government cracks down hard making Tiannamen Square look like a picnic.
A cheap Dollar will also mean that US will be able to export much more than they are doing now.
In fact I'm sure the Yanks WANT a devalued Dollar at the moment, that's why they are where they are. Just think about it, most of the businesses around the world are OWNED by US based corporations, even in SA.
US is also self-sufficient. They can survive, and very well without the rest of the world, after all virtually all IP (miliary, tech, entertainment, science, medicine, pharmacology) is developed in the US and exported from there,
by comparison Europe and Japan do not do nearly as much R&D as
the US.

I doubt the US will collapse anytime soon, in fact remember that the 1929 depression in the US caused a global depression around the world, and not the other way around, the Yanks were the first to recover too.
 
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Your argument would have made sense, was it not for the fact that the US economy is essentially a pyramid scheme. If the rest of the world does not keep "buying" US debt, the whole thing collapses. Here's a nice quote to sum it up nicely:

US debts must continue to grow by at least $2.5 trillion per year in order to keep GDP growth at 3-4%. Unlike prior recoveries, economic growth is dependent upon new credit creation.
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Source: http://www.kwaves.com/

Here's some nice graphs from that same source:

http://www.kwaves.com/debt.htm

The Chinese are wielding enormous power in this game.
 
StrongTurd said:
Your argument would have made sense, was it not for the fact that the US economy is essentially a pyramid scheme. If the rest of the world does not keep "buying" US debt, the whole thing collapses. Here's a nice quote to sum it up nicely:



Source: http://www.kwaves.com/

Here's some nice graphs from that same source:

http://www.kwaves.com/debt.htm

The Chinese are wielding enormous power in this game.
Click to expand...

If the US pulls out of China, China will die. In fact a collapse of China will be more serious than anything else as it could lead to open war with Russia and possibly India. We'd be in WW3 very quickly. The Chinese have been eyeing Russia for a very long time.

If the US defaults on its debt it can always thumb its nose at everyone else. Without US IP the rest of the world dies and no-one wants that. No-one else innovates as much as the Americans or develops new technology.
They could always devaluate their own currency and like I said, they are self-sufficient, they don't need the world.

Besides I'm sure they'll sell a few jet fighters to Saudi Arabia and cancel that debt they have. They're not stupid and they know what they're doing.
 
PeterCH said:
If the US pulls out of China, China will die.
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Says who? Sure, they will have economic difficulties, just like the rest of the world, but I don't see why a total and utter collapse should occur.

In fact a collapse of China will be more serious than anything else as it could lead to open war with Russia and possibly India. We'd be in WW3 very quickly. The Chinese have been eyeing Russia for a very long time.
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So, becuase China has been eyeing Russia for a long time, if China collapses, Russia will wage war against China? :confused:

If the US defaults on its debt it can always thumb its nose at everyone else.
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No it can't. The second the US defaults on its debt is the second that the Dollar stops being the defacto oil currency, and the second that America will have a very hard time indeed aquiring its oil supplies, or indeed any other raw materials that it is used to importing.

Without US IP the rest of the world dies and no-one wants that.
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Bull. R&D is alive and well in several different countries and it will continue to be so without America. There may be less overall development, but development will still occur.

No-one else innovates as much as the Americans or develops new technology.
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This is highly debatable. On the one hand they love to patent lots of things. Hell, the yanks even patent software, which everywhere else is merely copyrighted. Did you hear about the time they tried to patent the use of saffron for medicinal purposes, despite the fact that it has been used thus in india for well over a thousand years?

They could always devaluate their own currency and like I said, they are self-sufficient, they don't need the world.
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Bull. They aren't self-sufficient and that's the whole point. If they were, then there wouldn't be a trade deficit because they'd be trading with themselves inside their own borders.

Besides I'm sure they'll sell a few jet fighters to Saudi Arabia and cancel that debt they have. They're not stupid and they know what they're doing.
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A few jet fighters isn't going to dig them out of this grave.
 
PeterCH said:
If the US pulls out of China, China will die. In fact a collapse of China will be more serious than anything else as it could lead to open war with Russia and possibly India. We'd be in WW3 very quickly. The Chinese have been eyeing Russia for a very long time.

If the US defaults on its debt it can always thumb its nose at everyone else. Without US IP the rest of the world dies and no-one wants that. No-one else innovates as much as the Americans or develops new technology.
They could always devaluate their own currency and like I said, they are self-sufficient, they don't need the world.

Besides I'm sure they'll sell a few jet fighters to Saudi Arabia and cancel that debt they have. They're not stupid and they know what they're doing.
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Where do you guys get this BS? Its like official US sympathiser propaganda or something.

The US runs on oil. The majority of their oil is imported. The only way they could become anything approaching self sufficient is by weening themselves from their dependency on foreign oil. To do this they would have to stop voting in corperate puppets into power. If the yanks spent as much resources on researching green cars and building safe nuclear power stations they could easily become more self sufficient.

As for the rhetoric you spew not even Bush would believe it, so, really, where does it come from?
 
Says he who makes out like the US is this evil empire but yet eats its food and watches its movies and probably dresses like they do as well. By the way, the US does not make all the cars in the world. What about Japan, Europe, Italy etc? They could also be researching "green" cars.
 
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