China - Taiwan Developments

BBSA said:
Just because Russia says something, it doesn't necessarily make it true. It's possible for Russia to have ulterior motives or intentionally deceive, so it's wise to approach their statements with skepticism rather than naivety."
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Russia officially stating the reason for its own actions is the most authoritative it will ever get.

But let's be skeptics, fine, it either was the trigger as they said OR it gave them something as an excuse to blame as the trigger.

Regardless, without the coup happening first Russia has no trigger or official excuse for their actions in taking Crimea.

Same can be said for the war: trigger or excuse handed to them on a silver platter. Both are a bad idea.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
Russia officially stating the reason for its own actions is the most authoritative it will ever get.

But let's be skeptics, fine, it either was the trigger as they said OR it gave them something as an excuse to blame as the trigger.

Regardless, without the coup happening first Russia has no trigger or official excuse for their actions in taking Crimea.

Same can be said for the war: trigger or excuse handed to them on a silver platter. Both are a bad idea.
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There is currently no evidence to support the claim that a coup has taken place. It is important to avoid making assumptions and jumping to conclusions without sufficient evidence. As you have acknowledged, such behavior is inappropriate.
 
BBSA said:
There is currently no evidence to support the claim that a coup has taken place. It is important to avoid making assumptions and jumping to conclusions without sufficient evidence. As you have acknowledged, such behavior is inappropriate.
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whether it is a coup or violent uprising that ends in the government being removed (*cough* like with a coup *cough*), makes no difference to it being a trigger or an excuse to use as a trigger
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
whether it is a coup or violent uprising that ends in the government being removed (*cough* like with a coup *cough*), makes no difference to it being a trigger or an excuse to use as a trigger
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Firstly, the Ukrainian government was not removed; it underwent a change in leadership through democratic means. Secondly, we can only speculate about what Russia's true motives are.
 
BBSA said:
Firstly, the Ukrainian government was not removed; it underwent a change in leadership through democratic means.
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lmao, a violent mob demanded the president's removal, and he was removed

your sugar coating of the coup doesn't change that simple fact

BBSA said:
Secondly, we can only speculate about what Russia's true motives are.
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no need to speculate, you know what they say their motives are, so Ukraine either triggered it or Ukraine gave them an excuse to blame as the trigger
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
lmao, a violent mob demanded the president's removal, and he was removed

your sugar coating of the coup doesn't change that simple fact


no need to speculate, you know what they say their motives are, so Ukraine either triggered it or Ukraine gave them an excuse to blame as the trigger
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As stated before; The Ukrainian parliament, voted to remove Yanukovych, was democratically elected, and the decision to remove him from power was made through legal and constitutional means.

Again, you can not take what Russia say at face value.
 
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NarrowBandFtw said:
lmao, a violent mob demanded the president's removal, and he was removed
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Hey that happened previously in Russia. Is Russia a legitimate state even? Where is the successor or relative of the Romanovs to pass on the authority of the sovereign to a Russian president? Oh none, you say.

Is Russia a valid country by your criteria? No.
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
just like the Ukraine NATO flirtation went on for years while being protested, a red line was drawn and crossed, then war happened, you can argue how justified that was, you cannot argue it wasn't the trigger
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Why can't a sovereign nation choose who it allies with? Putin has increased NATO membership all by himself

Putin_NATO-Salesman2a.jpg
 
BBSA said:
As stated before; The Ukrainian parliament, voted to remove Yanukovych, was democratically elected, and the decision to remove him from power was made through legal and constitutional means
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"legal" in the same way it is totally legal when a small business owner signs over ownership to the mafia while they have a gun to his head

it was done because of the violence, it was done under duress, there is nothing "legal" about it
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
"legal" in the same way it is totally legal when a small business owner signs over ownership to the mafia while they have a gun to his head

it was done because of the violence, it was done under duress, there is nothing "legal" about it
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What would you call invading a sovereign country with an army then?
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
"legal" in the same way it is totally legal when a small business owner signs over ownership to the mafia while they have a gun to his head

it was done because of the violence, it was done under duress, there is nothing "legal" about it
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Protests are a fundamental aspect of any democratic country, as they allow citizens to express their grievances and advocate for change. In Ukraine protests were followed by an election that confirmed the will of the people.
 
wingnut771 said:
Those people locked themselves in those buildings and were throwing petrol bombs weren't they? They could have let themselves out at anytime.
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hopefully you don't actually seriously beleive that bullshyte

there are videos on the interwebs that literally show how the Maidan "protestors" barricaded the Trade Unions House building from the outside and set it alight, killing 42 anti-Maidan protestors in the process

suppose you'd also think it is pure coincidence that the deaths were only one one side
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
hopefully you don't actually seriously beleive that bullshyte

there are videos on the interwebs that literally show how the Maidan "protestors" barricaded the Trade Unions House building from the outside and set it alight, killing 42 anti-Maidan protestors in the process

suppose you'd also think it is pure coincidence that the deaths were only one one side
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Why were the Russians inside a Ukrainian building?
 
BBSA said:
I'm sorry, but your statement is unfounded. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the snipers were involved in the protest movement.
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errr, if you have your head in the sand sure, note nobody's saying they were protestors, nor were they Ukrainian officials, they remain unidentified to this day

what is known though is:
- they executed protestors
- the protest in Kiev got proper violent and out of hand after that

you may believe in coincidences, I don't

 
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