Clever bacteria

[rwenzori]

You did not read, otherwise you would not have assumed they do, and understood that I did not imply they do. More straw for you?

Koff, koff:

Foresight... a hallmark of intelligence.

Or did you perhaps mean "foreskin" rather?
Lollers!

 

[Phronesis]

In the link provided, I will update it for you:

Foresight... a hallmark of intelligence.
Nano-intentionality... A hallmark of molecular autonomous agents (all living things).
Present ever since the emergence of life.
Scientists Show Bacteria Can 'Learn' And Plan Ahead

ScienceDaily (June 18, 2009) — Bacteria can anticipate a future event and prepare for it, according to new research at the Weizmann Institute of Science. In a paper that appeared June 17 in Nature, Prof. Yitzhak Pilpel, doctoral student Amir Mitchell and research associate Dr. Orna Dahan of the Institute's Molecular Genetics Department, together with Prof. Martin Kupiec and Gal Romano of Tel Aviv University, examined microorganisms living in environments that change in predictable ways.

Intelligence? From the link provided...( and btw, this has been posted before)
Intelligence is associated with a property of mind.
Intelligence (wiki)
From the first sentence:

Intelligence (also called intellect) is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn.

For AI, the following characterstics have been identified or associated with "intelligence".
1) Deduction, reasoning, problem solving
2) Knowledge representation
3) Planning
4) Learning
5) Natural language processing
6) Motion and manipulation
7) Perception
8) Social intelligence
9) Creativity
10) General intelligence

However, there is no universally accepted definition of intelligence.
So let's take what we do know about intelligence (the 10 criteria above) and compare the systems and machinery within cells to any intelligent AI system.

1) Deduction, reasoning, problem solving
Cells:
Deduction: No
Reasoning: No
Problem solving: Yes. E.g. (from Nature;Vol 446;12 April 2007: Quantum path to photosynthesis)

Elsewhere in this issue, Engel et al. (page 782) take a close look at how nature, in the form of the green sulphur bacterium Chlorobium tepidum, manages to transfer and trap light’s energy so effectively. The key might be a clever quantum computation built into the photosynthetic algorithm.

The process is analogous to Grover’s algorithm in quantum computing, which has been proved to provide the fastest possible search of an unsorted information database.

And in the same issue: Evidence for wavelike energy transfer through quantum coherence in photosynthetic systems.

When viewed in this way, the system is essentially performing a single quantum computation, sensing many states simultaneously and selecting the correct answer, as indicated by the efficiency of the energy transfer.

AI:
Deduction: No
Reasoning: No
Problem solving: Yes. (not quantum mechanically)

2) Knowledge representation
Cells:
Default reasoning and the qualification problem: No?
Unconscious knowledge: Perhaps. Stored in any or all of the cellular codes?
The breadth of common sense knowledge: No.
AI:
Default reasoning and the qualification problem: No
Unconscious knowledge: Yes. The software contains the stored information
The breadth of common sense knowledge: No


3) Planning
Cells: Yes, from post #1:

We question whether homeostasis alone adequately explains microbial responses to environmental stimuli, and explore the capacity of intra-cellular networks for predictive behavior in a fashion similar to metazoan nervous systems. We show that in silico biochemical networks, evolving randomly under precisely defined complex habitats, capture the dynamical, multidimensional structure of diverse environments by forming internal models that allow prediction of environmental change. We provide evidence for such anticipatory behavior by revealing striking correlations of Escherichia coli transcriptional responses to temperature and oxygen perturbations—precisely mirroring the co-variation of these parameters upon transitions between the outside world and the mammalian gastrointestinal-tract. We further show that these internal correlations reflect a true associative learning paradigm, since they show rapid decoupling upon exposure to novel environments.

Microarray transcriptional profiling was employed to determine whether gene expression correlates with the observed global cellular state and physiological responses. And indeed it does.
From the study it was determined that anticipatory transcriptional reprogramming occurs in response to aerobic and anaerobic environmental changes and these anticipatory transcriptional reprogramming events are as a result an “associative learning” paradigm. Is this an example of harnessing random variation and selection that allow for predictive transcriptional reprogramming in response to environmental change that gives the illusion of foresight? Creativity?

And for this: Scientists Show Bacteria Can 'Learn' And Plan Ahead
AI: Yes if instructed to.

4) Learning
Cells: Yes, see post #1 and now this: Scientists Show Bacteria Can 'Learn' And Plan Ahead
AI: Yes, certain artificial neural networks are capable of this.

5) Natural language processing
Cells: Yes and no. Yes because cells are able to communicate and process information from themselves and other cells (autocrine, paracrine, endocrine etc). No, cells do not consciously talk
AI: Yes and no. Yes because certain programs can interpret human language and systems of various platforms can communicate (Linux to Mac etc). No, AI does not consciously talk.

6) Motion and manipulation
Cells: Yes, with the possibility that tubulin and other structural components of cells acting as quantum computers, motion and manipulation is directed, not stochastic, in even the simplest organisms.
Movement of organisms without a nervous system.... Nano-intentionality.
AI: Yes

7) Perception
Cells: Yes, cells communicate with the environment through surface receptors and relays information through signal transduction which in turn affects gene expression and protein activity.
AI: Yes

8) Social intelligence
Cells: Yes, even bacteria interact with other bacteria and can even mimic a multicellular organism through quorum sensing.
AI: Perhaps? AI neural networks?

9) Creativity
Cells: Yes, harnessing random variation and selection to adapt.
AI: Perhaps? An example?

10) General intelligence
Cells: No (Only in humans so far)
AI: No

When compared to our own engineered AI, even the simplest lifeforms' machinery outperforms it hands down.

 

[rwenzori]

In the link provided, I will update it for you:

You repeat it all, in spite of your statement "I did not imply they do". Are you just temporarily confused or are your self-contradictions a permanent feature?

Anyway, I did glance through all that - speculative kite-flying of the worst ( read "hidden religious agenda" ) kind. No brain = no mind = no consciousness = no intelligence. Unless your beloved cells have brains hidden in their arses or somewhere.

 

[Phronesis]

:erm: Read (with comprehension) what you quoted, what you wrote and what I replied to.
Here:
You quoted (provided to you btw because you are too lazy too look it up yourself):

Intelligence (also called intellect) is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn.

You said: All of which your "intelligent" bugs have?

Now right there you lied. I did not imply bacteria have all of these properties, heck, if you weren't so lazy, you would have seen in post #27 (and in the one above AGAIN) that I did not imply that they do. Now I get that you hate discussing biology and science in general (well the complete lack of any evidence that you are capable of going into even remote detail makes me come to that conclusion), but please do try and read with comprehension. Your misrepresentations do not go unnoticed.

No brain = no mind = no consciousness = no intelligence.

Nice equivocation
No brain, does not necessarily mean there is no mind. Btw, you still have to supply a sufficient understanding of what "mind" is.

Also, no consciousness does not necessarily mean no intelligence.

When compared to our own engineered AI, even the simplest lifeforms' machinery outperforms it hands down.
Here is more:
How Cells Reconcile Mixed Messages In Decisions About Growth
Cells Are Like Robust Computational Systems, Scientists Report

 

[rwenzori]

provided to you btw because you are too lazy too look it up yourself

Gotta love that charitable Christian outlook LOL!

You said: All of which your "intelligent" bugs have?

Er.. yes... ?? What part of "encompasses" don't you get?

please do try and read with comprehension. Your misrepresentations do not go unnoticed.

Try using a dictionary - an English one preferably.

No brain, does not necessarily mean there is no mind.
Also, no consciousness does not necessarily mean no intelligence.

No brain of some sort = no mind. No mind = no consciousness. No consciousness ( or at least the capability thereof ) = no intelligence.

 

[Phronesis]

Er.. yes... ?? What part of "encompasses" don't you get?

Constitute or include...
Where did I say bacteria have it all? I have repeatedly shown that they have several characteristics associated with intelligence.
These include:
Problem solving (robust computational systems)
Planning
Learning
Natural language processing
Perception
Motion and manipulation
Social intelligence (quorum sensing)

And it is apparent that when compared to our own engineered AI (artificial intelligence), even the simplest lifeforms' machinery outperforms it hands down.

No brain of some sort = no mind. No mind = no consciousness. No consciousness ( or at least the capability thereof ) = no intelligence.

There you go again with your cute ecquivocation (even though you changed "brain" to "brain of some sort").
No brain of some sort does not necessarily mean there is no mind.
No consciousness does not necessarily mean no intelligence (the visa versa can also be argued).

 

[rwenzori]

No brain of some sort does not necessarily mean there is no mind.
No consciousness does not necessarily mean no intelligence (the visa versa can also be argued).

What part of "include" don't you get?

But anyway:

You say yes, I say no.
You say stop and I say go go go, oh no.
You say goodbye and I say hello
Hello hello
I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello
Hello hello
I don't know why you say goodbye, I say hello.

 

[Phronesis]

Where did I say bacteria have it all?
I have repeatedly shown that they have several characteristics associated with intelligence.
These include:
Problem solving (robust computational systems)
Planning
Learning
Natural language processing
Perception
Motion and manipulation
Social intelligence (quorum sensing)

And it is apparent that when compared to our own engineered AI (artificial intelligence), even the simplest lifeforms' machinery outperforms it hands down.

That you still don't get this....

 

[rwenzori]

Where did I say bacteria have it all?
I have repeatedly shown that they have several characteristics associated with intelligence.
These include:
Problem solving (robust computational systems)
Planning
Learning
Natural language processing
Perception
Motion and manipulation
Social intelligence (quorum sensing)

And it is apparent that when compared to our own engineered AI (artificial intelligence), even the simplest lifeforms' machinery outperforms it hands down.

That you still don't get this....

Clearly you seem to think that if an organism exhibits one aspect of what you define as intelligence it might just be "intelligent" ( to get past your inability to understand words like "encompass" and "include" ), but you miss one rather important word in your own definition - see, I'll make it bold for you:

Intelligence (also called intellect) is an umbrella term used to describe a property of the mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn.

No brain = no mind. Just basic physical cause and effect.

You tediously repeat the bit about AI and lifeforms' machinery - so what?

 

[Phronesis]

Clearly you seem to think that if an organism exhibits one aspect of what you define as intelligence it might just be "intelligent" ( to get past your inability to understand words like "encompass" and "include" ), but you miss one rather important word in your own definition - see, I'll make it bold for you:

It just points out that cellular systems (even the most primitive) contains hallmarks of intelligence including:
Problem solving (robust computational systems)
Planning
Learning
Natural language processing
Perception
Motion and manipulation
Social intelligence (quorum sensing)

It would simply be ignorant to claim these systems are non-intelligent or worse than any of our own designed AI systems. Got it...

You still have not defined what "mind" is to you... own words now...

No brain = no mind. Just basic physical cause and effect.

lol, you just can't get past that ecquivocation... oh well.

You tediously repeat the bit about AI and lifeforms' machinery - so what?

Repeat it one more time to yourself so that it sinks in...

 

[rwenzori]

It would simply be ignorant to claim these systems are non-intelligent

Nope - it is ignorant to claim they are intelligent.

 

[Phronesis]

And ignorant to claim they are not...

 

[Phronesis]

Why microbes are smarter than you thought

The vast majority of species on Earth are single-celled. Most of these languish in obscurity – many have never even been named – but some of the relatively few species that have been studied exhibit remarkable abilities.

Many of these are physical: some micro-organisms are amazingly strong; others can hibernate for hundreds of thousands of years or thrive in environments so extreme that they would kill off most other life forms in a flash.

But many bacteria and protists also exhibit behaviour that looks remarkably intelligent. This behaviour isn't the result of conscious thought – the sort you find in humans and other complex animals – because single-celled organisms don't have nervous systems, let alone brains.

A better explanation is that they're "biological computers" with internal machinery that can process information (see our review of Wetware: A Computer in Every Living Cell). Here are some of the most striking examples of this "intelligent" behaviour from the New Scientist archive.

Examples of the following are given:
Communication
Decision-making
City living (community forming)
Accelerated mutation (yes, they control their mutation rate )
Navigation
Learning and memory...

They forgot a few though...
Problem solving and planning.

 

[Phronesis]

Bacteria Expect The Unexpected

ScienceDaily (Nov. 6, 2009) — Organisms ensure the survival of their species by genetically adapting to the environment. If environmental conditions change too rapidly, the extinction of a species may be the consequence. A strategy to successfully cope with such a challenge is the generation of variable offspring that can survive in different environments. Even though a portion of the offspring may have a decreased chance to survive, the survival of the species as a whole is guaranteed.

Within a generation, genetically identical offspring is produced that varies in the degree of adaptation to the current environment. Anticipating drastic changes of the environmental conditions in future, some variants have an increased chance to survive if the event occurs. This ensures the survival of the species as a whole. (Credit: Hubertus J. E. Beaumont)​

For the first time scientists have now observed the evolution of such a strategy under lab conditions in an experiment with the bacterial species Pseudomonas fluorescens: A bacterial strain exposed to rapidly changing environmental conditions developed the ability to generate variable offspring without additional mutations. This new strategy ensured the survival of the bacterial strain. The results were published in Nature.

Advantageous mutations become disadvantages

In their experiments the researchers exposed Pseudomonas strains alternately to unshaken or shaken culture media. Due to beneficial mutations in the genome, new variants emerged in both environments that had an advantage in either the "shaken" or "unshaken" environment. Once emerged, each new variant had to outcompete all other unmutated representatives of the ancestral strain. Under the assumption that one variant that differed in its outer appearance from its parent (for example smooth vs. rough surface) also must have outcompeted the parent strain, the most frequent representative of this new variant was picked and transferred to the respective other environment. Mutations that were advantageous in shaken media became disadvantageous in unshaken environments, and vice versa. As a consequence, new mutations and hence new variants evolved to compensate for this disadvantage. As soon as the bacteria adapted to one environment they were forced to readapt to the second one.

Bet-hedging: One genotype, several variants

The constant changes between shaken and unshaken media soon resulted in the development of types with the same genetic constitution (genotypes), which always produced two different variants. Once emerged, this was the ultimate survival strategy for the bet-hedging pseudomonades, for all other genotypes that produced new variants by mutation only had no chance to prevail against the bet-hedging variants.

Genetic analysis showed that both variants were absolutely identical on a genetic level. Furthermore, the bet-hedging genotype differed by nine mutations from the ancestral strain, with which the experiment had been started. Moreover, the final mutation in the series was causal for bet-hedging. "Our experiments provide evidence that risk-spreading is a very successful strategy to rapidly adapt to changing environments. If the same genotype generates several variants at the same time, it may survive major environmental changes," Christian Kost says. And Paul Rainey, principal investigator of the study at Massey University Auckland, adds: "The rapid and repeatable evolution of bet-hedging during our experiment suggests it may have been one of the earliest evolutionary solutions to life in constantly changing environments".

Interesting..., rapid and repeatable evolution.

 

[Jenemesis]

So it doesn't require the fifty billion years to be conditioned into evolving?
Kinda like getting crusty feet frm running around barefoot or having soft feet from wearing shoes 24/7/365?
Does this not imply that adaptation is built in, like getting a tan, intead of having to wait for the convention of genetics to decide when and how to mutate at myosis.
Perhaps it isn't rapid evilution at all but a built in mechanism, dorman, inherent, stimulated when needed, like being able to get corns and calouses instead of blistering incessantly?

 

[Phronesis]

Those decision making critters.... bacteria:

Bacteria Provide New Insights Into Human Decision Making

ScienceDaily (Dec. 13, 2009) — Scientists studying how bacteria under stress collectively weigh and initiate different survival strategies say they have gained new insights into how humans make strategic decisions that affect their health, wealth and the fate of others in society.

So, populations of bacteria also seem to make choices after careful calculation. Just like the brain that is being bombarded with information and making choices from this information through complex calculations.

Is life being passively sculpted by natural selection or does nano-intentionality and molecular autonomous agency play a role in the evolution of life?

 

[Jenemesis]

interesting link about the brain being bombarded with information, I can relate!
Perhaps the decision-making process is built-in from the onset and is there in the advent that adaptations for surviving in varying environments need to occur.
Bacteria make an interesting media for the study of living cells and there is such a variety!
Some mention was made earlier about viruses and I have often wondered about them.
Perhaps I shouuld do a search onthe topic, however, I prefer to ask here:
Viruses appear so mechanical and non-living in that some can survive indefinately without a "host" to feed off, what is your understanding of this?
Most bacteria contribute to the cycle of life, ie., they help digest food, decay waste and so on, although some bacteria are quite deadly, depending on their concentration especially, each variety having different effects on their "hosts" for want of a better word.
I know tht certain herpes viruses can remain dormant indefinately but flare up under duress or weakness in the immune system and that the HIV virus eventually erodes an immune system by "fooling-it-by-being-disguised"

Are all viruses harmful? since only some bacteria are harmful

Where do "new strains" of viruses come from? mutations?

Are viruses "alive"

I have learnt that bacteria can keep fungus in check and that most humans have a healthy balance of these, like the bacteria that keep candida in check.

Is there any relationship of keeping a virus in check like the bacteria keep mycotals in check?

(just some simple questions from a layman who wishes they had studied such interesting phenomena)

 

[Phronesis]

Viruses appear so mechanical and non-living in that some can survive indefinately without a "host" to feed off, what is your understanding of this?

Viruses can't self-replicate. They need the machinery of organisms that are capable of self-replication to propogate. The stability of viral particles differs. Some can be stable in quite harsh environments for a while, while other disintegrate rather quickly in milder environments.

Are all viruses harmful? since only some bacteria are harmful

Not all virusses are harmful to humans. About 8-10% of human DNA sequences are of retroviral origin. That means viruses in the past integrated into the genome without being removed by error correcting processes or negatively affecting fitness and reproduction.

Where do "new strains" of viruses come from? mutations?

Random variation of existing strains.

Are viruses "alive"

The best way to describe a virus is probably a parasitic element that is incapable of self-replication. I would not describe a virus as a living organism. Some might though.

I have learnt that bacteria can keep fungus in check and that most humans have a healthy balance of these, like the bacteria that keep candida in check.

Is there any relationship of keeping a virus in check like the bacteria keep mycotals in check?

Your immune system fights off harmful viral particles. Virusses also interact with bacteria (e.g. bacteriophages). The integrated viral genomic sequences in your genome also play crucial roles in many regulatory mechanisms.

So there are many relationships between viral particles and organisms.

 

[Techne]

[video=youtube;KXWurAmtf78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXWurAmtf78[/video]

 

[RiaX]

im waiting to see bacteriophages in action. Apparently thats the new era of antibiotics