Come all Ye and mock....project Ubu

C

Countcrypto

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So I was trying to send some funds to Luno over the festive season based on wanting to buy some or other coin I was interested at the time. I did this via my phone and while distracted by the festivities of the period. When the funds didn't show up within an hour I went back and noticed I had paid the funds instead to UBU (who I had set up months ago as a beneficiary when interested in the token sale). I never did take part in the ICO and it has long since closed. It wasn't a large sum so I simply approached FNB to reverse the transaction the next day. UBU declined this request. So......

I have written them an email requesting they return the funds, or perhaps even send over some coins I can park in MEW. I am interested in some third party objective opinions on what should happen next in this bizarre scenario ? Tough luck to me for a stupid mistake ? They should pay back the money ? They should issue me tokens and if so at what rate?

Thoughts?

For the record I have no idea of the status of this project and where it currently sits etc. I just also feel it's a bit slimy for them not to just give my shekels back.
 
So you sent them cash money?

If the money was not intended for them and you received nothing in return for the money, they should willingly pay it back. If not a legal responsibility, at least a moral one.

If they plan on issuing you tokens it should be fair to say that the token price would be at the date you requested the funds returned and/or exchanged.
 
Makes sense to me. I'm not asking to benefit from my stupidity. If they don't pay back the shekels I'll kick up a stink. I'm even willing to accept their tokens/coins. Of which I know nothing about, but would be upset if they just pull a "tough luck schmuck" stand. Doesn't sound a credible project who screws people over on (as I admitted) a relatively humble sum.
 
They should return the money.
No tokens, no IOU's, just return the money. Don't complicate the matter by asking for tokens. When did you send the email and have they replied?
 
Only sent it before I made this post after getting feedback from FNB they had declined my request. So not saying they are not playing fair as I am sure in this business model there are complications. I'll give feedback when they respond.
 
Countcrypto said:
Only sent it before I made this post after getting feedback from FNB they had declined my request. So not saying they are not playing fair as I am sure in this business model there are complications. I'll give feedback when they respond.
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It's Friday evening, I wouldn't expect financial competency from anyone at this time.
See what happens next week.
I'm sure they'll return it, unless it's a scam.
 
saor said:
It's Friday evening, I wouldn't expect financial competency from anyone at this time.
See what happens next week.
I'm sure they'll return it, unless it's a scam.
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Agree. No great hurry.
 
In fairness, they should deduct an admin fee of say R500-R1000. You have put them to trouble and burdened them with an administrative workload they didn't ask for. People at UBU have already spent time and used resources (and both cost real money) to note and decline your refund request. You now want them to spend more time (ie money) dealing with it again. All this hassle for them came through no fault of theirs and was caused entirely by you. Justice requires that you compensate them for it.
 
Arthur said:
In fairness, they should deduct an admin fee of say R500-R1000. You have put them to trouble and burdened them with an administrative workload they didn't ask for. People at UBU have already spent time and used resources (and both cost real money) to note and decline your refund request. You now want them to spend more time (ie money) dealing with it again. All this hassle for them came through no fault of theirs and was caused entirely by you. Justice requires that you compensate them for it.
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Whatever is fair. I don't blame them for my mistake. It is a modest sum but you know it is still my hard earned money and they shouldn't feel entitled to it.
 
Arthur said:
In fairness, they should deduct an admin fee of say R500-R1000. You have put them to trouble and burdened them with an administrative workload they didn't ask for. People at UBU have already spent time and used resources (and both cost real money) to note and decline your refund request. You now want them to spend more time (ie money) dealing with it again. All this hassle for them came through no fault of theirs and was caused entirely by you. Justice requires that you compensate them for it.
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Should he also pay you responding to his comments? Seriously R1000 + more? Pffft....
 
RedViking said:
Should he also pay you responding to his comments? Seriously R1000 + more? Pffft....
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Huh? Are you doff or something? I respond here by my free and gratuitous choice. The people who process orders, payments and refunds at Ubu do not do so for gratis - they're paid and their time and labour costs money.

See the diffs?
 
RedViking said:
Should he also pay you responding to his comments? Seriously R1000 + more? Pffft....
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Yes, I don't think the 2 seconds spent to press "deny reversing of funds" is worth R1000. Unless you make R60 000 a minute in which case please rather give me the tokens. I want a part of this magic !
 
You clearly don't know what it costs to run a business or do a job.

You are looking only at the two seconds.

But those two seconds pressing a button have to be spent by a person at a computer with a connection at a desk in an office, etc, etc, etc, all of which cost money. And while they're sorting out your mistake they can't do real income-producing work, so there's lost productivity as well.

In any case, it's not two seconds. More like 10-20 minutes for the while job to be done, if not more.
 
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Arthur said:
You clearly don't know what it costs to run a business or do a job.

You are looking only at the two seconds.

But those two seconds pressing a button have to be spent by a person at a computer with a connection at a desk in an office, etc, etc, etc, all of which cost money. And while they're sorting out your mistake they can't do real income-producing work, so there's lost productivity as well.
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I run my own business but that aside, why so confrontational ? I said from the get go it was my mistake and they should do whatever is fair. What isn't fair is just saying "suck it and bad luck". That type of reaction would make me assume this project is run by a bunch of charlatans and of course I will engage in reaching out to expose them. Really it isn't a large sum of money and I suppose they can weight up the pro's and cons of hoarding my few thousand shekels or just paying them back. I mean they would far better serve themselves in not dealing in the drama of the public relations nightmare stink I can kick up by just paying it back.
 
Confrontational? Just go back and read. I was calm until sarcy / fatuous comments were made.

If you run your own business then you should know it doesn't take two seconds to resolve the matter. Why say it, then?
 
Arthur said:
Confrontational? Just go back and read. I was calm until sarcy / fatuous comments were made.

If you run your own business then you should know it doesn't take two seconds to resolve the matter. Why say it, then?
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Money coming into their account post ico has exactly what transactional value to them or me ? Why decline my request for the reversal of funds ?

Let them respond to my direct request to them before we pass judgment.
 
Someone needs to check what happened and recon the deposit against transactions. That takes time. Any reversals probably need management approval. That takes time. Someone needs to explain what happened to a manager. That takes time. Then someone needs to actually effect the refund. That takes time.

Etc.

Of course they should pay back a payment made in error. To hold on to it would be unjust enrichment. But they are entitled to deduct reasonable costs, since there is no error on their part. What constitutes a reasonable admin fee is of course debatable and therefore negotiable.

I'd start off by being very nice to them and very apologetic for putting them to such trouble. They might even decide to be generous and not deduct any admin fee.
 
Arthur said:
Someone needs to check what happened and recon the deposit against transactions. That takes time. Any reversals probably need management approval. That takes time. Someone needs to explain what happened to a manager. That takes time. Then someone needs to actually effect the refund. That takes time.

Etc.

Of course they should pay back a payment made in error. To hold on to it would be unjust enrichment. But they are entitled to deduct reasonable costs, since there is no error on their part. What constitutes a reasonable admin fee is of course debatable and therefore negotiable.

I'd start off by being very nice to them and very apologetic for putting them to such trouble. They might even decide to be generous and not deduct any admin fee.
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Exactly how I have approached the matter. Heck I even said they can pay me in their tokens given the account was set up to buy tokens. Can you be more fair than that ? I'd prefer my cash back to be fair.
 
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