Complex going solar

Cius

Cius

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So our complex does not currently have a policy on solar panels or solar geysers, which means by default they are not allowed. With the price of electricity going sky high I am keen to install a solar geyser this year and then down the road solar panels perhaps. As such I have chatted to the complex chairman who is also keen to move the complex in this direction and he is giving me time to do a presentation at the upcoming AGM so that people can approve it hopefully.

I am curious to find out if anyone here is in a complex that has either of these options approved and how you manage it? Look and feel I guess is the big issue as there are so many different looking panels and geyser options and if you get a hodgepodge of different styles it could look messy.

Key decisions I have picked up on already is around the main styles of solar geysers, being panel, evacuated tubes, and the big one of do you allow the geyser to be on top of the roof. From what I understand if the geyser has to be in the roof you have to have a pump system meaning the geyser does not work during power cuts. Geysers attached to the panel on top of the roof can work without power. For practicality I like the geyser outside, for visual appeal inside the roof sounds better.

I am also thinking we may need people to provide a picture of a similar installation showing what it will look like so that we can decide based on that. I am not that keen on limiting panels to specific brands or vendors as that inevitably leads to more expense, even if you can get a very uniform style. Still, open to suggestions from people who are perhaps further down this road than us.
 
Cius said:
So our complex does not currently have a policy on solar panels or solar geysers, which means by default they are not allowed. With the price of electricity going sky high I am keen to install a solar geyser this year and then down the road solar panels perhaps. As such I have chatted to the complex chairman who is also keen to move the complex in this direction and he is giving me time to do a presentation at the upcoming AGM so that people can approve it hopefully.

I am curious to find out if anyone here is in a complex that has either of these options approved and how you manage it? Look and feel I guess is the big issue as there are so many different looking panels and geyser options and if you get a hodgepodge of different styles it could look messy.

Key decisions I have picked up on already is around the main styles of solar geysers, being panel, evacuated tubes, and the big one of do you allow the geyser to be on top of the roof. From what I understand if the geyser has to be in the roof you have to have a pump system meaning the geyser does not work during power cuts. Geysers attached to the panel on top of the roof can work without power. For practicality I like the geyser outside, for visual appeal inside the roof sounds better.

I am also thinking we may need people to provide a picture of a similar installation showing what it will look like so that we can decide based on that. I am not that keen on limiting panels to specific brands or vendors as that inevitably leads to more expense, even if you can get a very uniform style. Still, open to suggestions from people who are perhaps further down this road than us.
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Take into account both geysers types you get Direct or indirect heating - which means with Direct the actual water in the geyser is heated up by the sun and indirect a glycol mixture is pumped into the panels and that is heated up and then surrounds the water in the Tank indirectly warming it up. Personally prefer Direct.



As for the types of solar Geyser the one that does not require a pump is called thermosiphon geyser and correct the tank needs to be above the panels or tubes as basically works on hot water rising and cold water sinking so no external pump is needed - its very efficient and i really wish i had that one of these.

The Pump one ( I have one of those 220V pump) the tank does not have to be on the roof as water is pumped between the panels and tank when the panels are few degrees hotter then the water in the tank The pump needs electricity and although it doesn't pump when eskom decides to switch us off - I've notice water has gotten warmer (had a long few days cut off once) not sure how but i think it just pressure changes due to temperature of water in the panels forcing water slowly around.
The best solution if you want to keep tanks inside the roof is, you can attach a solar powered pump to this type of unit and the panel for the pump is about the size of an A4 Sheet - I would ensure it has battery backup as you need to sometimes push warm water though the panels in cold weather.

as for panel types I prever Evacuation tubes as they still work if one or more tubes are damaged and easy to replace compared to panels
 
Cius said:
From what I understand if the geyser has to be in the roof you have to have a pump system meaning the geyser does not work during power cuts.
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They usually install a 10W solar panel and 12V battery backup for the pump, so power cuts don't affect you.

At the very least, they should allow tubes or panels only on the roof (internal tank with pump).
 
Yep, for aesthetics I can't see the complex going geyser above the roof. However pumps become a part that can fail, so I guess a bit more maintenance in the long run.

I think I will definitely go with the pump solution that is powered by a solar panel and use evacuated tubes. However the geyser config is what still has me stumped. We are a 4 person household so 250 liter min. I have also read you can rig your existing geyser to the panels. Other advice I got says if you have one big geyser if you shower at night the cold water mixes with the warm cooling down the whole geyser so its better to have two medium geysers rigged up in series so that cold water entering the first geyser does not cool down the second geyser. Any comments on that? Might mean I can use my existing 150 liter geyser and one more then to get to about 250 liters.
 
Cius said:
Yep, for aesthetics I can't see the complex going geyser above the roof. However pumps become a part that can fail, so I guess a bit more maintenance in the long run.

I think I will definitely go with the pump solution that is powered by a solar panel and use evacuated tubes. However the geyser config is what still has me stumped. We are a 4 person household so 250 liter min. I have also read you can rig your existing geyser to the panels. Other advice I got says if you have one big geyser if you shower at night the cold water mixes with the warm cooling down the whole geyser so its better to have two medium geysers rigged up in series so that cold water entering the first geyser does not cool down the second geyser. Any comments on that? Might mean I can use my existing 150 liter geyser and one more then to get to about 250 liters.
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yes you can connect an existing geyser to solar panels (as long as it's not very old) - also remember you're not only using Solar to heat up the water - you still need to have regular electricity as well - sometimes the panels don't get hot enough and in the morning you will need to use electricity to warm the water up.
A good option is to ensure (and this is no matter what geyser config you get) to install a solar controller like geyserwise to control the unit. So if you shower in the morning you will need electricity to warm up the water as it would have lost a significant amount overnight especially if cold and the panels need a warm water injection


as for connecting 2 geysers much of a muchness it won't hurt - if you have the space no harm but it's a bit of a cost if you don't already have a geyser or can convert the one you have then spending on a full unit.

Also bear in mind insurance excess on a solar geyser is more expensive on my policy an electric or gas geyser to replace is R500 excess Solar is a R2K excess
 
Please share the presentation when you are done, looking to do the same but a little confused.
Don't you just need the trustee's to agree on this?
 
Our complex is over 60 years old and also has no mention of solar anywhere.
My neighbour just went ahead and put one on our roof we share and it looks great.
That was 2yrs ago and not a single person has complained.
https://www.sustainable.co.za/100l-evacuated-tube-conversion-solar-water-heating-system.html
Something like this but the panel looks like a PV solar panel more than those tube style things. His geyser sits inside the ceiling.
The pump runs off a small 12v battery that is fed by a charger when ESKOM is there.
 
isie said:
yes you can connect an existing geyser to solar panels (as long as it's not very old) - also remember you're not only using Solar to heat up the water - you still need to have regular electricity as well - sometimes the panels don't get hot enough and in the morning you will need to use electricity to warm the water up.
A good option is to ensure (and this is no matter what geyser config you get) to install a solar controller like geyserwise to control the unit. So if you shower in the morning you will need electricity to warm up the water as it would have lost a significant amount overnight especially if cold and the panels need a warm water injection


as for connecting 2 geysers much of a muchness it won't hurt - if you have the space no harm but it's a bit of a cost if you don't already have a geyser or can convert the one you have then spending on a full unit.

Also bear in mind insurance excess on a solar geyser is more expensive on my policy an electric or gas geyser to replace is R500 excess Solar is a R2K excess
Click to expand...
i too want to go solar but PV solar as i dont like the idea of hot water swirling around on my roof in our complex.
https://www.sustainable.co.za/geyserwise-pv-solar-water-heating-kit-for-100l-geyser.html
This is the setup i want. I know it is more expensive and needs more time heating up geyser but i just feel safer having this into my existing brand new geyser that i have.
 
Chuckmyster said:
i too want to go solar but PV solar as i dont like the idea of hot water swirling around on my roof in our complex.
https://www.sustainable.co.za/geyserwise-pv-solar-water-heating-kit-for-100l-geyser.html
This is the setup i want. I know it is more expensive and needs more time heating up geyser but i just feel safer having this into my existing brand new geyser that i have.
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interesting - basically just generate Solar electricity for the Geyser element - geyserwise timer so you can control when it switches on , not sure if it will be slower then a normal geysers in theory should be about the same , - so it has a battery to store charge (see 4Ah that doesn't seem like it would last long may look at getting a bigger battery ) - only thing i can't see is if it has grid back up on a rainy day where you don't generate any electricity unless the controller handles that?


This seems a bit easier and will look nicer then a traditional solar geyser -
 
isie said:
interesting - basically just generate Solar electricity for the Geyser element - geyserwise timer so you can control when it switches on , not sure if it will be slower then a normal geysers in theory should be about the same , - so it has a battery to store charge (see 4Ah that doesn't seem like it would last long may look at getting a bigger battery ) - only thing i can't see is if it has grid back up on a rainy day where you don't generate any electricity unless the controller handles that?


This seems a bit easier and will look nicer then a traditional solar geyser -
Click to expand...
the existing element in your geyser gets replaced with a DC one, hence it is 900 watts and therefore slower to heat up. the new element is also 2000 watts AC so in the event of a bad cloudy day it will revert back to ESKOM.

Totally agree on a slightly bigger backup battery, wont be expensive
 
Chuckmyster said:
i too want to go solar but PV solar as i dont like the idea of hot water swirling around on my roof in our complex.
https://www.sustainable.co.za/geyserwise-pv-solar-water-heating-kit-for-100l-geyser.html
This is the setup i want. I know it is more expensive and needs more time heating up geyser but i just feel safer having this into my existing brand new geyser that i have.
Click to expand...

https://www.gumtree.co.za/a-other-e...kit-for-150l-geyser/1003978678460911513122709

Then you only need someone to install and COC ;)
 
And with the above setup i want to go where using PV panels is i will let them run for the hours intended to heat the geyser. Then say around 1pm for example i will have a relay switch over the positive and negative wires of solar panel to a different circuit. To a solar charge controller like a Victron 75V/15A for example.
https://www.sustainable.co.za/victron-smartsolar-75v-15a-mppt-charge-controller.html
This will generate 74 volts at over 8 amps DC into an array of batteries that will be wired to my apartment for lighting only.
ie Convert all my lights from AC to DC. Will never worry about not having lights again, added security is running outdoor lights too during load shedding.

Then say around 3pm or so (can't take that long to charge a battery that is only providing power for lights (and 74 volts at 8.6 amps equates to over 50 amps into a 12 volt array)) have the relay automatically kick over back to providing power to the geyser so that it is ready to start heating up again.

Something like that, just my idea of what i will do when i have the bux for such a kit and a Raspberry Pi.
 
Pho3nix said:
Please share the presentation when you are done, looking to do the same but a little confused.
Don't you just need the trustee's to agree on this?
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The rule I applied when I was a trustee was: if it costs the complex money(above a certain amount) or affects aesthetics, then consult owners.
If it doesnt cost money or affect aesthetics and offers benefits to the complex, then trustees can make the decision.
 
Pho3nix said:
Please share the presentation when you are done, looking to do the same but a little confused.
Don't you just need the trustee's to agree on this?
Click to expand...
If your complex has non-functioning trustees then probably, but really anything installed outside your unit or major building work requires trustee approval even if it is the norm in your complex. So for instance our complex allows aircon units, but if I want to install one I would still need approval and would have to ensure it is a neat installation. If you do things without their approval you put yourself at big risk of having to tear it down. Legally, they can tear you a new one if you just do things without following the process even if in practice a lot of people get away with it.

For stuff that dramatically changes the appearance of a complex, you need an AGM approval to add it to the list of approved projects owners can undertake. Common one's could be thatch lapa's in exclusive use area's, water tanks, and solar installations.

So my presentation to the AGM will have the purpose of getting our complex to agree on the fact that we want to allow solar installations and what the rules and limitations are around that. Like geysers on the roof or inside the roof.

I am starting with solar geysers, and panels. Next year I might tackle water storage (potable or grey water harvesting). Both are not currently allowed in our complex just because we have never bothered to vote on it or talk about it in the AGM. It requires someone to do the research, present it, motivate for it, and to get people to vote.
 
Have you considered gas geyser? Solves the body corporate issue and also cost effective. If many units buy you could negotiate decent deal from installer as well
 
Joeboy69 said:
Have you considered gas geyser? Solves the body corporate issue and also cost effective. If many units buy you could negotiate decent deal from installer as well
Click to expand...
good point, gas geyser is use on demand. Very affordable if you keep your bathroom duties to a minimum time spent :thumbsup:
 
Electric pv and dc element, panels will need to be 2 x bigger than equivalent direct heat system.
We have split system installed about 3 years ago , about a month ago pump stopped working i opened it up remove limescale and good as new.
Summer it can easily reach 75 degrees saw a few times 90 degrees when was not used previous day .
We paid about 20k for evacuated tube + 200l geyser ( inc eskom rebate tho )
 
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