Concerned Citizen

[Sherbang]

Thank you to everyone who has replied. I have learnt a lot from what you have said.

After reading what Joelus said, it becomes clear that Jacob Zuma has played key roles in South Africas development but does this give him ownership over the country?

What are you talking about "ownership over the country"?
We have a political system in this country where a party is voted into power and the head of that party (as voted for by the members of the party) becomes president. It's a form of democracy. Perhaps a form of Aristocracy, meritocracy, plutocracy, oligarchy or corpocracy would suite you better but that's not what we have. Jacob Zuma is where he is because he is popular and in a democracy, popularity is what counts.

I also don't buy this argument that voters are all narrow minded, gullible and uneducated. Many are uneducated but that doesn't mean they are stupid.

Most of the ANC NEC, who put Zuma where he is, are actually highly educated people. Probably more educated than most people on this forum. Likewise, many ANC voters are very well educated.

Just because people see things differently to you and disagree with you doesn't mean they are stupid.

Standard disclaimer: I do not support Zuma for president.

 

[brixton tower]

Racism, yea pull the card. I live in a country where we have something we call freedom of speech. If i wanted to call my prime minister a monkey or a donkey or anything else, i can.

There is no racisim in my post. You making the assumptions, I like to call a spade a spade. Or a monkey a monkey.

How does calling people monkeys not constitute racism, especially in the context of South Africa? Don't even try that ***** cause I'm going to call a spade a spade.

The thing is, you can say people are monkeys because you choose to hide behind a computer monitor...If you want freedom of speech, go out and say what you're saying in the middle of Small Street Mall...You wouldn't do it cause you're a pu$$y, and I'm not just saying it to you here on the internet, I'll say it to your face if I ever have the displeasure of meeting you.

 

[MacNabs]

How does calling people monkeys not constitute racism, especially in the context of South Africa? Don't even try that ***** cause I'm going to call a spade a spade.

The thing is, you can say people are monkeys because you choose to hide behind a computer monitor...If you want freedom of speech, go out and say what you're saying in the middle of Small Street Mall...You wouldn't do it cause you're a pu$$y, and I'm not just saying it to you here on the internet, I'll say it to your face if I ever have the displeasure of meeting you.

Sorry, i don't agree. How can someone that faces 783 charges of corruption, not be classed as a monkey? Someone that takes a shower to prevent aids. What should we compare him to? A swan? Maybe a rat? Or a snake? Calling someone a snake or a rat is not racism???, but mention the word monkey!!! SA is the the only country in the entire world where you may not use the term is? HA

I don't have issues with the NZ goverment, if I did I sure as hell would be bellowing it out in the streets. Some people do, and they don't have to fear for their lives either. Because freedom of speech should not come with penalties like it does in SA. Would i do that in SA, no. The reasons are simple enough, SA is a lawless nation and I probably would get killed for it. So sitting behind my monitor here in NZ is a little safer. Yip, then maybe i am a pu$$y.

 

[Fudzy]

Again, I ask why do the educated and wealthy of the country sit around and ask questions and complain about Zuma yet are unable to offer a better alternative?

 

[brixton tower]

Sorry, i don't agree. How can someone that faces 783 charges of corruption, not be classed as a monkey? Someone that takes a shower to prevent aids. What should we compare him to? A swan? Maybe a rat? Or a snake? Calling someone a snake or a rat is not racism???, but mention the word monkey!!! SA is the the only country in the entire world where you may not use the term is? HA

I don't have issues with the NZ goverment, if I did I sure as hell would be bellowing it out in the streets. Some people do, and they don't have to fear for their lives either. Because freedom of speech should not come with penalties like it does in SA. Would i do that in SA, no. The reasons are simple enough, SA is a lawless nation and I probably would get killed for it. So sitting behind my monitor here in NZ is a little safer. Yip, then maybe i am a pu$$y.

Please, don't try and skirt around the issue...Both of us know that your racism has nothing to do with freedom of speech or even Zuma for that matter. You need to come clean, and admit to yourself that you're a racist...see why many black people have respect for Afrikaners(at least the old skool types) is because they're honest...they don't beat around the bush with silly euphimisms...They're racist and they'll tell it to your face. But then we get dishonest pr!cks like you, sitting in the comfort of a faraway country that seem to get off on any negativity coming from SA...even if there was a natural disaster(highly unlikely) you'd probably be getting off on that to feed your sick fantasies of doom and gloom.

 

[Devill]

You are correct in your concern - too many idiots with the vote.

Not idiots merely uneducated and thus short sighted.

Education is the only thing that can heal this country.

 

[Vrotappel]

How does calling people monkeys not constitute racism, especially in the context of South Africa? Don't even try that ***** cause I'm going to call a spade a spade.

The thing is, you can say people are monkeys because you choose to hide behind a computer monitor...If you want freedom of speech, go out and say what you're saying in the middle of Small Street Mall...You wouldn't do it cause you're a pu$$y, and I'm not just saying it to you here on the internet, I'll say it to your face if I ever have the displeasure of meeting you.

LOL you are so funny, but in a sad way (these racist accusations are getting really old).

Mbeki was not popular as he did not believe in hand outs. Africans like hand outs. The masses don’t want to work its not the African way. Show me an African country where the Africans have worked to get the country better.

Most Africans are in the same state of denial regarding aids as Mbeki. They have not changed their lifestyles despite numerous warnings,campaigns, etc.

The question still remains how anyone in their right mind can think that Zuma will make a difference.

Aids did not stop him banging his friend’s daughter.
He is as corrupt as all the other ANC leaders.
He still advocates violence with his war songs.
He is uneducated (and it shows)
Etc.

Here’s a reality check for SA:

Zuma becomes prez
His charges are withdrawn
Manuel decides to cal it a day (or gets replaced)
The rand goes into freefall
Chaos ensues

Read Pieter Mulder on the state of South Africa:

What do whites hear when the ANC in their newsletter and the State of the Nation Address talk of "accelerated implementation of affirmative action" and "Black Economic Empowerment"?

They hear that for a long time still to come they will be discriminated against on the basis of their race. They hear that their skills and contribution toward the development of this country is not needed.

I asked last year why South Africa is the economic giant of Africa? Is it because we have so many minerals?....
....

 

[JungleBoy]

Sorry, i don't agree. How can someone that faces 783 charges of corruption, not be classed as a monkey? Someone that takes a shower to prevent aids. What should we compare him to? A swan? Maybe a rat? Or a snake? Calling someone a snake or a rat is not racism???, but mention the word monkey!!! SA is the the only country in the entire world where you may not use the term is? HA

According to research, primates (monkeys, orangutans, gibbons, gorillas, chimpanzees etc) are the most 'intellelligent' of the animal species second to us of course. To better illustrate your point, you could have chosen the most stupid of animals, like turkey, sloth, panda, jellyfish etc.

But seriously though, monkey noises are often made whenever black footballers, touch the ball in European soccer. Ask Samuel Eto`, Rio Ferdinand, Sol Campbell, they've all been victim to such racism.

 

[Hoof-Hearted]

Again, I ask why do the educated and wealthy of the country sit around and ask questions and complain about Zuma yet are unable to offer a better alternative?

C'mon fudzy you can't honestly think there aren't better alternatives? The educated and wealthy, as you put it, vote for them at every election... unfortunately they are in the minority.

 

[Eyenstyn]

I think the topic has taken an akward turn towards racism. Is this all that South Africa offers?

What are you talking about "ownership over the country"?

I can give you an example. When the ANC decided to oust Thabo Mbeki based on hearsay, it totaly threw democracy out the window.

I agree with Joules that a lot of black South Africans, especially those in office and parliment are more educated then most ordinary citizens. They use a lot of academic speak, which can confuse the average layman.

Why does it seem so simple for us to see what is wrong with the country but so complicated for them. We can just call it corruption and leave it as that but that is sort of a dead end.

What i want to know is why arent more political parties forming and trying to reach out to the other 60 million South Africans in the rural areas, to educate them on what the country needs...

@MacNabs

Eyenstyn if you have concerns now about Zuma, where have u been for the last 10 or so years, most of us have seen the light a very long time ago.

That to me is a very racist thing to say. It shows that you have looked down upon black people from the very beginning. I dont consider you to be a productive member of society.

Ofcourse i have qualms with previous presidents for making bad decisions but Jacob Zuma should not be our next president because he has become infamous through corrupt means.

 

[brixton tower]

I think the topic has taken an akward turn towards racism. Is this all that South Africa offers?


I can give you an example. When the ANC decided to oust Thabo Mbeki based on hearsay, it totaly threw democracy out the window.

I agree with Joules that a lot of black South Africans, especially those in office and parliment are more educated then most ordinary citizens. They use a lot of academic speak, which can confuse the average layman.

Why does it seem so simple for us to see what is wrong with the country but so complicated for them. We can just call it corruption and leave it as that but that is sort of a dead end.

What i want to know is why arent more political parties forming and trying to reach out to the other 60 million South Africans in the rural areas, to educate them on what the country needs...

@MacNabs
That to me is a very racist thing to say. It shows that you have looked down upon black people from the very beginning. I dont consider you to be a productive member of society.

Ofcourse i have qualms with previous presidents for making bad decisions but Jacob Zuma should not be our next president because he has become infamous through corrupt means.

Last time I checked South Africa's population barely touched 50 million and probably a third of those would be eligible to vote.

The reason the DA is not resonating with most black voters is simply because they have failed to communicate their policies(which are pretty reasonable to me)...Their policy documents are long, tedious and requires at least a university level education to decipher...Would they even make their policies available in all the languages of SA? Could someone from the DA explain their policies in simple speak?

 

[Eyenstyn]

Last time I checked South Africa's population barely touched 50 million and probably a third of those would be eligible to vote.

your getting a bit nit picky there. it was a rough estimate. the essence of what i was saying should have gotten through.

The reason the DA is not resonating with most black voters is simply because they have failed to communicate their policies(which are pretty reasonable to me)...

That to me suggests that they are not fit to run the country.

 

[MacNabs]

@MacNabs
That to me is a very racist thing to say. It shows that you have looked down upon black people from the very beginning. I dont consider you to be a productive member of society.

Forget race dude, we have incompetent, uneducated, corrupt people running the country. End of story!!!! Its not about race, I saw long ago where SA was heading and I am sure many others did too. Kudus to them. If SA was being run like a Botswana or Even Namibia for that matter, I probably would have different views.

 

[MacNabs]

According to research, primates (monkeys, orangutans, gibbons, gorillas, chimpanzees etc) are the most 'intellelligent' of the animal species second to us of course. To better illustrate your point, you could have chosen the most stupid of animals, like turkey, sloth, panda, jellyfish etc.

+ 100000000000, You just took me out laughing my head off at your post

 

[Eyenstyn]

Forget race dude, we have incompetent, uneducated, corrupt people running the country. End of story!!!! Its not about race, I saw long ago where SA was heading and I am sure many others did too. Kudus to them. If SA was being run like a Botswana or Even Namibia for that matter, I probably would have different views.

The white government before the ANC was just as corrupt if not more corrupt than todays government. The only difference is that people today are more aware of whats going on in government than during the apartheid era.

 

[MacNabs]

The white government before the ANC was just as corrupt if not more corrupt than todays government. The only difference is that people today are more aware of whats going on in government than during the apartheid era.

Dude, wake up and smell the coffee. I don't recall any of the previous presidents of the old government facing 783 charges of corruption. The list is endless of MP's, the police, politicians and even the courts doing corruption. Most government departments these days are corrupt. In the old days I was not able to bribe myself very easily out of a fine, today its part of life. In the old days I could not buy a ID book, Passport or even a drivers license very easily, today its also part of everyday life. The UK has just pulled the plug on South Africans visiting the UK, now they need visas! Why? Because SA is corrupt. This would never have happened under the old government! Not saying there was no corruption in the old days, its just ten folded.

I disagree with your statement that people are just more aware of whats going on today. Seems like you suffering from a bit of ostrich syndrome. Why must you mention that the previous government was white? Who cares really?

Besides, I really don't care about the old goverment, all i am really cared about is the current state of SA and where its heading. The new government is doing SA no favors, SA's course is definitely not on the recovery. With Zuma becoming SA's next president, things are not going to be better that they are now, in fact they going to be far worse. I then recon after Zuma, that Malema clown will stand a good chance of being the next president. So for the next 20 years or so, SA is unfortunately heading the wrong way.

 

[MacNabs]

I would like to know why are people supporting Zuma? What has he ever done for the country? Does his trail concerning corruption resonate with some of the lower income people of South Africa? Do they see him as one of them, being unfairly treated by other people in South Africa?

The majority of people in this country live in rural areas, they decide who the next president will be, i feel my vote has little significance in the greater scheme of things. .

Yip you got that right, your vote has little significance, but vote. I cannot vote in the elections as I am not allowed to. Even though I am still a SA citizen, citizens living in other countries are not entitled to vote. In the 1994 elections we had that right, the ANC canned that right ever since they came into power. Hundreds and thousands of prisoners (rapist murders etc) have the right to vote. As for me I can’t. Its estimated that there are about 2Mil people that have emigrated or are working overseas. The ANC will never allow us to vote, yes this has now gone to the high court etc, but it will never be in time for the elections. Too much has to happen overseas in every single big city in nearly every single country. Setting up polling stations etc is too much work for too little time. New Zealand does not even have an SA Embassy.

What i want to know is, how can we/i change this? I would like for my country to be a super power in the world, with advanced technology and a leader in world business.

To be honest, i think that the ANC has been using the excuse to help the poor ,to remain in power. What they are doing is promising them a better future but failing to deliver because in essence the poor people want a hand out for keeping the ANC in power. .

There unfortunately is not much you can do. SA is a “democracy”. To get SA out of its current state its going to take a new government, a government ruled by the minority of people again. People that know what they doing, not clowns. You cannot undo the democracy. Africa has a way of running its course. Every other African country has gone through what SA is going through right now. SA is just starting its ride. If you are part of the minority in SA, there is nothing you can do but accept the fact, wait until things hit the very bottom, then bring the county up again. I think Zim has now reached that point, it may get a little worse in the next year or two, but in the next 10-20 years, Zim will be a hell of a lot better than what it is today. I don’t see SA being better in 10-20 years time than it is today.

 

[Eyenstyn]

First of all "Dude"

In the old days I was not able to bribe myself very easily out of a fine, today its part of life.

Your not even living in South Africa currently, it seems like this is something your overhearing from other people of what the country is like. Yes there are corrupt cops and there are cops who comply with the law strictly, and there are corrupt people who want to break the law. This has always been happening even during the apartheid government.

I disagree with your statement that people are just more aware of whats going on today. Seems like you suffering from a bit of ostrich syndrome. Why must you mention that the previous government was white? Who cares really?

The fact that you can clearly mention the corruption charges of public figures is more than enough evidence that there is more awareness of what is going on in government. The fact that the apartheid government oppressed people and their right to free speech to allow citizens the right to criticize the atrocities that they had commited, clearly indicates a much worse of government. The apartheid government was ruled by white people, that is a fact, if you deny that its like trying to say the holocaust never happen.

Besides, I really don't care about the old goverment, all i am really cared about is the current state of SA and where its heading. T

If you openly criticize the current government without understanding the history of the nation, you clearly dont understand anything about the people of South Africa.

To get SA out of its current state its going to take a new government, a government ruled by the minority of people again.

I totally disagree with you, if a white government had to restablish itself, it wont solve anything, it will infact make matters worse. Democracy clearly has its flaws and thus needs to replaced with a more effective way of handling public needs.

If you are part of the minority in SA, there is nothing you can do but accept the fact, wait until things hit the very bottom, then bring the county up again.

Its quite patronising for someone to criticize the country i am living in when he/she doesnt even live here. I think you represent the voice of the middle to upper class white community, who blames black people for all the wrong doings in the country and thinks that all other races are beneath them.

@MacNab: What i want to know from you is, do you think black people are stupid?

 

[Vrotappel]

I think you represent the voice of the middle to upper class white community, who blames black people for all the wrong doings in the country and thinks that all other races are beneath them.

So 'dude' you reveal your true white-hating colours. Is that what you think of the upper class white community? Are you to retarded to realise that this is the people that still makes SA work; these are the people that SA cannot afford to lose, and these are the people with skills. Get rid of these people and we have Zim 2.0.

Return to the hole from which you have crept out and take Zuma with you.