Construction question

That's pretty shocking. But anyway, use an RSJ to span that gap.
 
OverKill69 said:
I can't picture what you're trying to describe... can you post some photos or a drawing?

Is the builder trying to cross a 5m span by joining 2x 2,7m lintels? That is dodge in the extreme if unsupported underneath. You can't "join" lintels mid-span... unless it's supported underneath by a load bearing wall or column right under the join. (which isn't really joining them)

1) What's on the approved building plans (you got those right?)
2) Who signed the approved building plans (accredited engineer?)
3) What's on the roof truss layout plan? Sometimes the roofing people "suggest" changes to make their job easier. (they're not right all the time, after all, they do roofing, they're not architects.)
4) If you're even a little suspicious that something isn't structurally sound, make the builder explain and ask the architect/engineer for a site visit. If they won't come out and the builder is dodging, call the NHBRC.

After that slab collapse in Alberton last year or so, everyone is a little more jumpy. Gone are the days of building without plans, you can get into serious poo.
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What he said.
Adoxographist said:
We have proper registered architect and engineer.
In the architect's drawing they put in a dotted line for the roof line and the guy from trusses suggest putting a beam through to make it easier. The architect said he got approval from engineer.
p.s. We are not enrolled with NHBRC. But we do have all proper paperwork from the city.

Here is the pictures: http://1drv.ms/1K7hlxQ
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I can put money on it now that it won't hold up "unconditionally". That segment is going to sag at some point in time, and given a load that is on the maximum side of its capacity, it can very well sag enough to break. This is already a concern with a single lintle where the construction thereof was shoddy, so if you "join" those two together you will have a major problem.
If that piece of wall has any major load placed in the middle within say 30cm of either side of the join, and the forces don't spread out nicely, it will break in two without as much as a warning.
 
To be honest the original architect, engineer approved drawings did not have this "beam" going through. The trusses guy suggested it. I will tell him to tear it down tomorrow.
Currently, we already replaced the original builders and all the builders we had were extremely uncooperative and arrogant. Maybe its because I'm Asian or something.
 
Your only option without removing the whole thing is to knock out holes on either side and insert another full length lintel/lintels below the existing lintels and make sure they are flush.

You beam will just sit a little lower than before. A 5m should do it. Keep a prop at that join at all times during this procedure.
 
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WaxLyrical said:
Your only option without removing the whole thing is to knock out holes on either side and insert another full length lintel/lintels below the existing lintels and make sure they are flush.

You beam will just sit a little lower than before. A 5m should do it. Keep a prop at that join at all times during this procedure.
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The cashbuild we went to didn't have 5m so we went with 2 2.7m. The best I see it is put bricks under the side lentil where it holds these up and then replace with these 2 with a 5 meter. Will look around other builders shop.

Thanks everyone. :)
I'm so glad I know this forum.
 
Adoxographist said:
The cashbuild we went to didn't have 5m so we went with 2 2.7m. The best I see it is put bricks under the side lentil where it holds these up and then replace with these 2 with a 5 meter. Will look around other builders shop.

Thanks everyone. :)
I'm so glad I know this forum.
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whoa whoa whoa

I had a look at the pics. That is completely the wrong thing to do. IN EVERY WAY!
And to be honest, even 5m lintels won't be 100% either. Unless you make the beam thicker.
You need a PROPER beam.
Lintels get their strength from the layers of brick and brickforce above them. You need MINIMUM 4 COURSES of bricks and brickforce above a lintel to provide it's intended purpose strength. And for a roofing support element, I would not use JUST lintels and bricks.

A 5m span is pretty big. Using just lintels and bricks, it'll sag from the weight of the beam alone without the additional weight of the roof.
I'd use an I-beam to the right specifications. Eyeballing it for a 5m span, I'd say a 240mm or 270mm I-beam, could be thicker based on the weight of the roof.
You can even use wooden beams if you want to go that aesthetic route. Laminated wooden beams are super strong at the right thickness. Again, eyeballing it for a 5m span, get a 500mm+ laminated saligna beam.

An engineer needs to do the maths here and design a beam to withstand both the static bending moment AND possible dynamic load of the weight the roof will exert on the beam. They then build in a safety margin and over-engineer the beam to norms and standards.
Roofs flex and move when the wind blows and you might want to walk up there one day. The next person to do work on the house a few years down the line will assume the beam is properly load bearing and not "just" a lintel with a few bricks over it.

Beams are no joke dude. Get the engineer to come and do a site inspection and have him/her give their recommendations. They have to sign off on the roof to complete the contract. Rather double safe than sorry.

EDIT:

Oh my word dude!!!!
I just saw that the one end of the beam is over a doorway lintel!!!!!! THAT IS COMPLETELY WRONG AND UNSAFE!
You can never EVER EVER put a load bearing beam over a doorway lintel like that unless it has been properly designed. (yours hasn't)

PLEASE! FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, GET THE ENGINEER TO COME INSPECT.
And while you're at it, report this builder to the authorities.

If you hadn't posted this question... and those pics... This could have resulted in a full on catastrophic failure.

This is starting to look dodge from all angles. I don't have the roofing plan in front of me, but the roofing guy is just not qualified to modify a building to this extent. An engineer or architect would never anchor a load bearing beam over a doorway like that. There are ways to change the truss arrangement without a supporting beam. They can't jeopardize a building's structural integrity by recommending half a$$ed changes to make their lives easier.
This "beam" is practically unsupported on one side.

Damn this pisses me off
 
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Adoxographist said:
The builders are "NHBRC", they are on they system, so they should know their stuff. :mad:
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I can tell you what we have seen builders do in our neighourhood will make your hair stand on end.

They seem to have no regard for any rules any more. They also write cr*p on their Facebook saying they did stuff in weeks when it really took 7 months.
 
Name and shame Adoxographist.

God forbid this guy gets more building work.

And jirre, OverKill69 knows his stuff.
 
OverKill69 said:
I just saw that the one end of the beam is over a doorway lintel!!!!!! THAT IS COMPLETELY WRONG AND UNSAFE!
You can never EVER EVER put a load bearing beam over a doorway lintel like that unless it has been properly designed. (yours hasn't)
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Saw that now as well. :wtf:

All the downward load applied on the end of the lintel is being applied onto that doorway on the left, so while the doorway isn't really wide, that lintel is going to have to carry quite a load.

Mentioning 5m lintels sagging... I've seen houses (in one of the upmarket Waterkloof areas) where shoddy building left lintels sagging around 10cm in the middle. I hope they redid those before they finished the house.
 
Adoxographist said:
To be honest the original architect, engineer approved drawings did not have this "beam" going through. The trusses guy suggested it. I will tell him to tear it down tomorrow.
Currently, we already replaced the original builders and all the builders we had were extremely uncooperative and arrogant. Maybe its because I'm Asian or something.
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I may be misreading your statement above, but as I read it this was your instruction to the builder after the truss gents's comment, if that is the case no wonder all the builder issues, and to just ask the builder to do something and pop down to Cashbuild for a lintel or 2: it really is not about your race, but do look at your attitude, this could have killed/ maimed someone.
 
Adoxographist said:
Haha, Lol/ I don't really know much about building. I'm a accountant.
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That's fine man, I don't know too much about accounting...
So I get someone to advise me and do my books for me... a professional.

Same with building man.
It's one of the most rewarding experiences of one's life... building their own house. Get someone professional to help, doesn't need to be a full time project manager, but someone who you will steer you in the right direction.
And if you don't know... ask.
Use this opportunity to learn as much as you can.

I didn't know anything about VAT until my auditor phoned to authorize an ungodly amount that needed to be paid to SARS. I learned pretty quick everything there was to know about VAT after the first few months of running my business. I asked a friend who is a CA to explain it all to me and now I don't feel like I'm being robbed blind.
 
D tj said:
I may be misreading your statement above, but as I read it this was your instruction to the builder after the truss gents's comment, if that is the case no wonder all the builder issues, and to just ask the builder to do something and pop down to Cashbuild for a lintel or 2: it really is not about your race, but do look at your attitude, this could have killed/ maimed someone.
Click to expand...

Nope, I''m not in charge of the building, so I didn't know this was going on till they already built it and I checked that evening.
She asked the builder if it was okay and the builder (NHBRC) who said it was perfectly fine to do it this way. They got the lentils and built that.

We will probably have to fight tomorrow to tell him to break it down and he will try to charge us more for "extra outside contractual work" or won't bother to fix it at all saying its fine. They been taking chances at us constantly with payment issue as well, they don't think I know my contractual law and try taking chances with us. There are other issues here and there and as well and they just say "its okay, its okay" and never bother fixing it and tell us off when we press the issue.

OverKill69 said:
Get someone professional to help, doesn't need to be a full time project manager, but someone who you will steer you in the right direction.
And if you don't know... ask.
Use this opportunity to learn as much as you can.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for your advice. :)
I already learnt so much :) feels like I can build a single story house by myself now.
 
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Does sound like you need a part time? project manager on this to get things on track and to keep an eye on matters.Ask around.
Good luck!
 
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