Contractual Issues surrounding MyWireless

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regardtv

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Hello All,

Just a few notes/comments concerning the terms & conditions document all prospective MyWireless customers are supposed to sign:

1) 9.3 No guarantee.
Basically, if I buy the service, whether it works or not in my home. I have no opportunity to say "thanks, but no thanks" if it does not work as all in my home... So give Sentech R 500.00 + R 15576.00 (excluding extended warranty) for 24 months without service.

2) 9.4 - Use of personal information
Here we sign our right to ANY privacy away. Sentech may use our info for ANY purposes and give it to anyone to do ANYTHING with. Can anyone say SPAM.

3) 9.5 - Fair Use policy
While most/all ISP's have such a policy in place this one gives Sentech absolute control service levels etc. This has been discussed in many other threads so read more there.

4) 12.2 - Suspension of services.
If the service is suspended for ANY reason, technical or otherwise, we are liable to pay the full monthly rate. ie unless the service is unavailable for 60 days we will not be able to get out of the contract but <b>still have to pay for NO service</b>.

5) 13.1 Termination
Sentech can terminate within 3 days. We have NO termination options whatsoever.


6) 13.3.3 - Negative impact
Lets say a virus gets on your pc and eats some bandwidth. Sentech can at it's discretion terminate your contract and may make all fees due on the spot. You have NO recourse in this matter as the contract does not allow any negotiation as it stands

7) 16.2 - Sentech may vary charges at will.
But if you cannot afford to pay the new charges - tough. <b>That one could hurt</b>

I have sent in a question to their helpdesk in reference to my application but have not heard anything back.

While I understand that Sentech needs to protect itself I don't think this contract instills any warm fuzzy feelings in ANYONE.

Comments ?
* Or did I misread the complete document ?

P.S. Check on your application that the total monthly amount adds up correctly ... mine added the R 500.00 activation fee into my monthlies ... ie R 500 + R 649.00 per month !
 
I phoned Sentech and asked to speak to someone in legal - they had the following to say. (in order of privacy i will not disclose who i spoke to)

1. As regards the contract, they are in the process of looking at it again.

2. As regards being able to change the pricing - they can do so at their will BUT, they cannot change pricing of people who have already signed the 24-month contract. the contract is binding on the contract at the price stipulated on it.

3. You cannot cancel your subscription for minor interruption in service, BUT - should Sentech not be able to sustain "proper- ??" service in your area after numerous attemps - they will give you the option to hand back the equipment and terminate the contract at no penalty.

4. The contract is based entirely on the mobile contracts i.e if you terminate early, you must return all hardware and pay up the difference.

5. Sentech can modify the terms and conditions at will - but NOT a signed contract. i.e the conditions u signed with, stay.

6. Any breach of contract on Sentech's side, which includes the permanent removal of servince in your area, will make the contract null and void. i.e you dont owe them and vice versa.

Whether or not all of this will be committed to by Sentech is another story, and i would still like to see someone from Sentech reply to this post.
 
You must remember your choice is limited for 24/7 connectivity:

Diginet 64k at thousands per month (Telkom)
Satelite connection at a few thousand a month less (Telkom & Sentech)
ADSL at around R1000 pm (Telkom for the line many as ISP)
MyWireless at around R650 pm or more.

The consumer is the beggar.

There does not seem to be much difference between the standard terms of Telkom and Sentech - it seems so similar on the "lack of service gaurentee" side that I guess Sentech hired the Telkom lawyers

So make your choice: It is either the Telkom or Sentech legal attitude leaving no room for keeping customers at ease.

And have a look in the crystal ball whom of Telkom and Sentech is most likely to provide the best service as both are not prepared to guarentee their services.

I wish for the day when I would read the marketing headline:" 1 hour without service - you get 2 service hours for free!"

I guess Pretoria needs to be snowed under before that will happen!



South Africa needs World Class Broadband at World Competitive Prices.
 
Thanks, <b>regardtv</b>, for the summation of the contract and thanks for your follow-up with Sentech, <b>eternity</b>. The info is really helpfull.

Kaspaas:

<i>kaspaas wrote:
Diginet 64k at thousands per month (Telkom)
Satelite connection at a few thousand a month less (Telkom & Sentech)
ADSL at around R1000 pm (Telkom for the line many as ISP)
MyWireless at around R650 pm or more.
The consumer is the beggar.</i>

Agreed. Now my following statement might not be well received, but here goes: I have a Telkom leased line to my home. It used to be very stable, but in the past week it has not been very reliable at all. Telkom has been doing a lot to test the circuit and find the problem. They're still battling to get it right, but they <b>are</b> battling.

<i>There does not seem to be much difference between the standard terms of Telkom and Sentech - it seems so similar on the "lack of service gaurentee" side that I guess Sentech hired the Telkom lawyers</i>

Ahh, but I know that I can cancel the line at any time. I don't even have to specify a reason. Any equipment that belongs to them goes back to them.

As for the Cellular provider analogy: when you buy a cell-phone you *know* it will work. There is coverage, you friends have it, your business partners have it. It does work. It's a proven system (albeit more expensive than other countries). Also, you have the option for pre-paid and you can buy the phone upfront if you so desire.

Sentech is immensely limiting the scope of the consumer and causing many to flee due to uncertainties about coverage, support for other OS's and their totally <b>one-sided contract</b>. Sentech should have enough belief in their radio network and other infrastructure that they don't feel afraid of guaranteeing a certain level of performance.

<i>And have a look in the crystal ball whom of Telkom and Sentech is most likely to provide the best service as both are not prepared to guarentee their services.</i>

That might have been so in the older days. Telkom have varying levels of SLA's (yes you pay for them, but they're there). And I fell on my back the other day when I received my Telkom data bill and the time my line was down was credited to my account. Tell Sentech to put that in their pipe and smoke it.

I am not a Telkom lover, and I will sign up for Sentech once they cover Centurion reliably and I will cancel my Telkom leased line if I am satisfied with Sentech's performance.

--deckert
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">2. As regards being able to change the pricing - they can do so at their will BUT, they cannot change pricing of people who have already signed the 24-month contract. the contract is binding on the contract at the price stipulated on it. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

If that's true, then he is essentially admitting that the clause that states that you agree to the AUP, combined with the "Sentech may charge you more for 'Excessive Use'" clause in the AUP, are actually complete crap and not legally binding.

Either that, or he fed you bull****.

mithrandi
 
I dont get it, I'm sure you read the contract wrong.

9.3 -&gt; No garuntee.
They dont garuntee, even if you are in reception area, that you can receive a signal.

Why not ? It makes sense, else you decide to build your house in a metal cage or something, and blame them for not receiving signal? Wouldnt that be unfair.

9.4 -&gt; I think this aplies to application information and not your actual data. I'm sure they have no right packet sniffing you as that is a breach of your rights to privacy (I could be wrong). Spam ? I doubt it, why would they want to mistreat theire customers ? Do you have a reason ? How many people would join sentech if the first 100 subscribers are complaining loudly because of it. Anyways, read other company contracts. It's no different ... anyways ... do you run windows xp ?

9.5 -&gt; ... yeah

12.2) unless sentech at it's sole discretion otherwise in writing...
I 'think' youre wrong on that.

13.1) Do you have termination options at any other service providers like MTN ?

13.3.3) Yeah virus ... If they decide that your porn server is using to much bandwith, why cant they tell you to stop ? Other companies can.

16.2) Erm, name a company that doesnt do that on a 24 month contract, hasnt insurance and celphone reates gone up ? doh ?

R 500 + R 649.00 per month ?
When I applied it didnt say that. It said that would be my initial fee.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TrXtR</i>
<br />I dont get it, I'm sure you read the contract wrong.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Actually I had a legal firm review this for me - nice to have a girlfriend in the right company.

I have since spoken to Sentech on a few occasions and they have conceded some of my complaints - but cannot commit to any corrective action. It's up to their legal department and will take as long as it takes to fix.

I'll be waiting patiently until such time as fair contract is released.

As to the assumptions you've made as to what information they are talking about - the issue is that they CAN monitor all our traffic as per the ECT bill - that's a seperate issue. I didn't even mention that - What my privacy concern is about is that they CAN use ANY information for ANY purpose ... I never said they WOULD use it.

As to SPAM ... If you bought a house, like I have, in the past 2 years, it's amazing how many 3rd party companies phone and say that they heard you recently moved in and can they offer you service X ... upon querying them at lenght it turns out the BANK gave them my details --- SPAM.... Sentech it would seem has the same right per the contract.
 
If you don't want them to monitor your traffic, simply take the necessary steps to make it impossible for them; encryption, steganography, traffic analysis countermeasures... whatever is applicable for your threat model.

mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar
 
you not get signal because of certain things within your house causing interferance. I had a previous not so legal wireless service and found out the signal can't go through my window because it had reflective tints. Stuff like that. Sentech is merely just protecting themselves. They have to do this to protect them, you get these strange cases

..- dot dot dash ;)
 
Look I'm sure sentech will do what they can to make theire customers happy.

How about this, if you dont like the contract, dont sign it.
Read more contracts. This contract is 100% standard.
 
I've been reading up on other wireless ISPs in the states that's using the ipwireless equipment.
They all offer a 30 day money back incase you don't have signal or you're not happy with the service.

Why can't sentech also do this? The contract states you're responsible for checking coverage on the web site, but if you read the first page when check, they don't take responsibility for the information on that site.......

--
 
9.3 - The clause is there for the people that work in some building, undergrouns. It's not their for little people like you. They cannot be held liable, because you work in a mine, and you dont get coverage. That's your problem, not theirs. They canot cater and spend money on DUMB people. Live with it.

9.4 - Maybe they know your past experience, and thought they'd play a bit on your emotions. Yeah this clause sucks, sucked when I agreed to that when I got winxp

9.5 Blah blah blah, thats so standard, everywhere in the whole world, including south africa. Yebo yes. What if the rand bails majorly, and they start operating at a loss, but just to make sure you keep your panties on, theyre gonna rather go broke.

12.2 This only applies to clause 12.

13.1 Are you planning to breach the contract? Man I wouldnt want you to sign with me.

13.3.3. If the customer <b>does</b> or <b>allows</b>
<b>Do you allow, willingly, virusses to come on your computer? Man your weird</b>

16.2 - I cant say this enough, most 24 month contracts state that.

Yes definitly, maybe sentech is out to get you regardtv, and make your life misrable, maybe after you sign the contract, theire gonna make you pay for giving them money. Here's a logo for yoy, get a sticker for your car 'Sentech wants to make my life a living hell'

But I doubt they do.

Lastly. If you sign the contract, and 9 months down the line, sentech decides to shove a huge 9 foot pole down your butt. Sentech cannot just go gangbanging theire customers. No matter what the contract says. So if you feel that pole is a bit tight, you can go against them in court. And you can state that it's a 'unfair' move. The judge can agree, and tell them to sodoff and take the pole out.
There's allot of things covering you. This contract is not the law, there's other colored pdf's for that.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TrXtR</i>
<br />13.3.3. If the customer <b>does</b> or <b>allows</b>
<b>Do you allow, willingly, virusses to come on your computer? Man your weird</b>
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Alot of people slack on firewall software deliberatly with the excuse that there is nothing important on their computer. This behaviour is damaging to the rest of the internet.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Karnaugh</i>
<br />
Alot of people slack on firewall software deliberatly with the excuse that there is nothing important on their computer. This behaviour is damaging to the rest of the internet.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Agree. But I doubt it's fair to say all users delibratly do that. Sentech hasnt advised customers on anything. So in the case of customers that dont know what a firewall is, cannot be told it was deliberate. They dont know any better. So the ISP should be informing them of personal firewalls and stuff.

I think
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TrXtR</i>

Man your weird

Yes definitly, maybe sentech is out to get you regardtv, and make your life misrable, maybe after you sign the contract, theire gonna make you pay for giving them money. Here's a logo for yoy, get a sticker for your car 'Sentech wants to make my life a living hell'

But I doubt they do.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Sad ... really sad. I made the comments to assist people - not to have you take such a useless approach. My comments on this forum were placed in the hope to encourage some worthwhile discourse which could then be constructively used by Sentech.

While some people are quite willing to sign a contract without properly understanding it, I rather kill a clause I'm not happy with. My ISP and mobile contracts had clauses removed and both were ok with these changes. Those I signed ...
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">* Or did I misread the complete document ?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

All I'm trying to point out is that you reaaaallly baaaaadlly misread the contract. (And that your weird ;)
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by TrXtR</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">* Or did I misread the complete document ?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

All I'm trying to point out is that you reaaaallly baaaaadlly misread the contract. (And that your weird ;)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I should just ignore your posts in future *grin*

The comments are as they came back from a law firm actually -- guess lawyers really don't have a clue -- I'll remember to ask you next time ... what is your hourly rate ?
 
Did you modify what came from the lawyer ? Cause your point 4 about 12.2 was very wrong.

Same with point 6, about 13.3.3

And your comment about point 7 wich is standard on any contract (Except that <b>some</b> give the ability to terminate contract)

To me, it seemed more like slander than a reply from a lawyer.
Ignore me and grin as you will. Doesnt bother me at all.
 
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