crypto "bank" cards?

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DANNLER

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so i see in USA and EU there is a couple of crypto cards that supports VISA and MasterCard points. like crypto.com and revolut card.

I'd assume that using that cuts down in alot of transfer fees ect.

is there something similar in RSA that we can use, instead of going the luno route, or is there even a way to acquire such a card in RSA?
 
Ice3 has something but it's a tax nightmare as everytime you swipe you have to account for tax
 
Snyper564 said:
Ice3 has something but it's a tax nightmare as everytime you swipe you have to account for tax
Click to expand...
isn't Ice3's card just a prepaid card that you need to fund yourself by withdrawing to it?

meaning every time you decide to top the card up is when you have to account for tax, but not when you swipe
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
isn't Ice3's card just a prepaid card that you need to fund yourself by withdrawing to it?

meaning every time you decide to top the card up is when you have to account for tax, but not when you swipe
Click to expand...
Lets say you top up R100k worth of btc that becomes R120k by the end of the week and you swipe 100% of that.

You pay tax on the R120-R100=R20 profit
 
Snyper564 said:
Lets say you top up R100k worth of btc that becomes R120k by the end of the week and you swipe 100% of that.

You pay tax on the R120-R100=R20 profit
Click to expand...
surely you would also have to pay tax on the initial R100k as well, so you would be taxed on the entire R120k.
 
lucifir said:
surely you would also have to pay tax on the initial R100k as well, so you would be taxed on the entire R120k.
Click to expand...
no the initial 100k is an expense its a tax deduction.

You buy R100k of btc (expense thats deductible)

You swipe for R120k (this is "income")

R120k -R100K =R20k profit you pay tax on the profit

thats why these cards are going to be an absolute tax nightmare
 
Snyper564 said:
Lets say you top up R100k worth of btc that becomes R120k by the end of the week and you swipe 100% of that.

You pay tax on the R120-R100=R20 profit
Click to expand...
I meant you top it up with ZAR, it is just a regular ZAR based prepaid card as far as I know

when you top it up you sell BTC and the resulting ZAR is added to the card's balance, so before you do any swipes the tax event is in the past and the balance is now purely ZAR
 
NarrowBandFtw said:
I meant you top it up with ZAR, it is just a regular ZAR based prepaid card as far as I know

when you top it up you sell BTC and the resulting ZAR is added to the card's balance, so before you do any swipes the tax event is in the past and the balance is now purely ZAR
Click to expand...
I see, agreed on that. If it was however in crypto then it would be different.
 
Snyper564 said:
I see, agreed on that. If it was however in crypto then it would be different.
Click to expand...
that holy grail doesn't really exist yet, been looking into "crypto" cards for a while and they all have a couple of things in common it seems:
- prepaid cards mostly which aren't accepted everywhere, not real debit or credit cards (BlockFi looks set to launch a real crypto credit card)
- funded in fiat, manually, no true crypto balance on the card
- not available to South Africans (Ice3x is available, but a very poor product compared to the rest)

interesting you mention the tax implications, I've been wanting a card in order to finally cut out traditional banks completely ... once you can spend "BTC" everywhere you can do that ... so if I ever have the option the tax angle is one I'd need to evaluate properly
 
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Speedster said:
I see you're on some anti-ice3x campaign. No need to worry, they don't exist anymore
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it is a bit of a shame really, Ice3x in many respects was one of the crypto pioneers in ZA, now it just looks like a scam when I suspect it probably was just lax processes / security / something that lead to its downfall

with many people that have their funds now in an uncertain state I can understand the vitriol

would love for the, previously very vocal, CEO to just come clean and lay it all out so everyone knows exactly what happened

lawyers most likely told him and anyone else who may have more context to stay quiet (@BitcoinZAR ?)
 
Snyper564 said:
no the initial 100k is an expense its a tax deduction.

You buy R100k of btc (expense thats deductible)

You swipe for R120k (this is "income")

R120k -R100K =R20k profit you pay tax on the profit

thats why these cards are going to be an absolute tax nightmare
Click to expand...

It's even worse than that. Imagine you have multiple transactions spread over the whole tax year. Each and every transaction is a separate disposal event that has to be calculated at the prevailing value of BTC at the time of the transaction. Not only that, but you also have to figure out how to calculate your base cost because you might have loaded up your card with multiple units of BTC all bought at different prices.
 
deweyzeph said:
It's even worse than that. Imagine you have multiple transactions spread over the whole tax year. Each and every transaction is a separate disposal event that has to be calculated at the prevailing value of BTC at the time of the transaction. Not only that, but you also have to figure out how to calculate your base cost because you might have loaded up your card with multiple units of BTC all bought at different prices.
Click to expand...
correct this was as simplified as I could go
 
I have a Lloyds Bank crypto card, but it has always been declined
 
Snyper564 said:
Said it before leave them alone they will be a nightmare for your tax affairs just cash out and spend anywhere
Click to expand...

I see so many people getting themselves into a tax nightmare over crypto. Even worse, they don't even realise it yet. When you ask them if they've considered the tax consequences of what they're doing they just look blankly at you and ask what do you mean.
 
deweyzeph said:
I see so many people getting themselves into a tax nightmare over crypto. Even worse, they don't even realise it yet. When you ask them if they've considered the tax consequences of what they're doing they just look blankly at you and ask what do you mean.
Click to expand...
100% and on top of this so many think that crypto to crypto or using crypto to buy something online or via a card isnt even a taxable event. SARS is waiting for you with a 200% penalty...
 
deweyzeph said:
I see so many people getting themselves into a tax nightmare over crypto. Even worse, they don't even realise it yet. When you ask them if they've considered the tax consequences of what they're doing they just look blankly at you and ask what do you mean.
Click to expand...

It's really true. A friend of mine got a fine for not paying tax after he paid in cryptocurrency for a purchase in an online store.
 
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