Data Access Layer in .Net

[Fuma]

I am using .net 2.0 and VS 2005 and I'm not that clued up with these stuff. Your strongly typed datasets and all.

I just went through it and I'm not sure if I liked it since it looks like everything is done for you like your classes and xsd's. So do you like it it? At least the 2.0 way of doing it?
I'm sure I'm "getting" it wrong?

 

[dequadin]

If you're looking for an alternate ORM for .NET you can have a look at NHibernate, there's a big community around it.

If you're struggling to uderstand how DataTables, DataSets and DataGrids all fit together, check out this excellent article:
A Practical Guide to .NET DataTables, DataSets and DataGrids

 

[Raithlin]

What he said. ^^

I'm not sure what you mean by 2.0 - as opposed to what? Sorry, but it's been so long since I did anything 1.x that I can't remember any differences. To answer your question, strongly typed datasets are good for coding (and maintenance), but not necessary by any stretch.

I like the 3.0 way of doing things too - LINQ and all.

 

[dequadin]

I'm not sure what you mean by 2.0 - as opposed to what?

The only issue I can think of with the OP being limited to 2.0 is the Entity Framework which requires 3.5 (maybe SP1?)

And then there's all the linq-y stuff that comes with that Linq-SQL & Linq-Entities, but that shouldn't be too limiting...

 

[Raithlin]

The only issue I can think of with the OP being limited to 2.0 is the Entity Framework which requires 3.5 (maybe SP1?)

And then there's all the linq-y stuff that comes with that Linq-SQL & Linq-Entities, but that shouldn't be too limiting...

Yeah, but what's the OP comparing 2.0 to?

 

[Fuma]

What he said. ^^

I'm not sure what you mean by 2.0 - as opposed to what? Sorry, but it's been so long since I did anything 1.x that I can't remember any differences. To answer your question, strongly typed datasets are good for coding (and maintenance), but not necessary by any stretch.

I like the 3.0 way of doing things too - LINQ and all.

As opposed to doing it the 3.0 way. I haven't worked with 3.0+
I just don't like the fact that it generates all the xsd behind my back. I prefer to be "in charge" of my code, not some automatically generated one. The .xsd file generates .Designer.vb, xsc, and .xss on top of the schema definition itself. That doesn't work for me.

 

[FarligOpptreden]

I prefer doing my own data access layers, thank you.

 

[Raithlin]

I prefer doing my own data access layers, thank you.

You and me both. I prefer to work with my own objects - something I believe nHibernate is good at creating. Trust me to re-invent the wheel out of spite (and desire for control :twisted.

 

[Gnome]

Personally I think NHibernate is a POS. Microsoft have their way of doing things and NHibernate is not one of them. Since you are tied into MS with .NET why not use their method: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa581778.aspx

You can still change the DAL, the classes are generated but you are free to change them, I haven't done this in a while but I distinctly remember creating my own classes that are used by those DAL classes generated by VS. I've used it before to create an ORDB by just changing things here and there for the generated classes. Personally when I used NHibernate, I felt it wasn't on the level of the JPA (Java Persistance API, which is pretty much like Hibernate, the Java based ORDB), the level of integration just isn't there.

If you use Java that's an entirely different thing, JPA/Hibernate is the way to go.

I don't understand why people use .NET for web development over PHP (for lightweight) or Java (for enterprise), .NET isn't as simple and well suited to RAD as PHP IMHO and it's nowhere near the level of JEE so to me it's like it doesn't really have a foothold.

For Windows GUI applications I'm all there tho, .NET all the way.

 

[Raithlin]

Funny, that. I find I can complete an ASP.Net app in less time than I can a PHP app of the same calibre/spec. Isn't that amazing?

Thing is, we all have our preferred platform. I've been working with .Net since v1 was in beta, and I cut my .Net teeth on ASP.Net, so I am really comfortable there. I have only dabbled in PHP, mostly courtesy of Joomla, so I struggle a bit at the moment. Once I get Drupal I'm sure it will all come to me... but I digress. I'm sure you're more comfortable with PHP than ASP.Net, and there's a place in the dev world for both types of developers.

One thing though: don't think for a second that JEE is better than .Net. I've worked in both, and .Net is simply leagues ahead in terms of GTD.

 

[FarligOpptreden]

Funny, that. I find I can complete an ASP.Net app in less time than I can a PHP app of the same calibre/spec. Isn't that amazing?

+1

Thing is, we all have our preferred platform. I've been working with .Net since v1 was in beta, and I cut my .Net teeth on ASP.Net, so I am really comfortable there. I have only dabbled in PHP, mostly courtesy of Joomla, so I struggle a bit at the moment. Once I get Drupal I'm sure it will all come to me... but I digress. I'm sure you're more comfortable with PHP than ASP.Net, and there's a place in the dev world for both types of developers.

+1

One thing though: don't think for a second that JEE is better than .Net. I've worked in both, and .Net is simply leagues ahead in terms of GTD.

+1!!!

EDIT: Very informative reply, eh?

 

[Raithlin]

Since you are tied into MS with .NET why not use their method: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa581778.aspx

Actually, the url I'd use would be http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa581776.aspx - it uses a proper language.

 

[Raithlin]

Very informative reply, eh?

Upping your post count, eh?

 

[Gnome]

One thing though: don't think for a second that JEE is better than .Net. I've worked in both, and .Net is simply leagues ahead in terms of GTD.

Getting things done? That's not really a unit of measurement but I assume you mean development speed?

It may be faster in terms of development speed but when it comes to stability and execution speed, there is no alternative to JEE so far as I'm aware. Just February we had a guy from Absa, I can't recall his name but he was one of the top guys in their IT department talking to us @ Tuks about security and such. One of the things he said was that their Internet banking platform was initially created on .NET but it was a mess, the servers constantly fell over and just couldn't handle the load. Then they switched over to JEE and they've never looked back. I have yet to see a mayor private organization in SA use anything else. The ones I can name of the top of my head, Absa, Standard Bank, Momentum, Nedbank, just about every financial institution I've seen uses it.

There is a reason all mayor corporations that run enterprise websites use JEE, .NET just doesn't have the standards in place or the track record. I've also read a research paper or two on the subject and in terms of performance JEE was way ahead of .NET or anything else except one C++ based server (can't recall what it's called just now). I'm sure more research has been done on the topic but I'm not going to google scholar it just now, I'll leave that to you if you want to.

A language is a tool, there are lots of small companies in SA that swear by .NET and all the large companies swear by JEE. I've used both and I can clearly see that in terms of Enterprise websites JEE is king. Yes it's not easy to build a website, it takes time, which is why I say PHP for small websites. I've used all 3 of them and I'd say I'm close to power user level on all 3, so far nothing beats PHP in terms of development speed IMHO. On the other hand if you try and use JSE for Windows applications it's a fail IMHO, .NET is far better, hence my reasoning, each has it's target market.

I also think PHP is getting underscored significantly, there are quite a large number of VERY large websites running on PHP, among them Wikipedia and Facebook (front end at least).

 

[Fuma]

I'm also yet to find big corporates running .Net applications. JEE is KING. No doubt. I just have the basics on JEE and went for a course on EJBs and stuff and I can't remember a thing.

I'm yet sure whether to specialize in .Net or JEE in the next few years before I change my career. Eish

 

[Gnome]

Are you studying currently Heita_Hola? If so where?

 

[Fuma]

Are you studying currently Heita_Hola? If so where?

I'm working. Never really specialized in anything for almost the past 7 years. I spend six months using this, another 3 months using that and and.

 

[Raithlin]

Getting things done? That's not really a unit of measurement but I assume you mean development speed?

It may be faster in terms of development speed but when it comes to stability and execution speed, there is no alternative to JEE so far as I'm aware. Just February we had a guy from Absa, I can't recall his name but he was one of the top guys in their IT department talking to us @ Tuks about security and such. One of the things he said was that their Internet banking platform was initially created on .NET but it was a mess, the servers constantly fell over and just couldn't handle the load. Then they switched over to JEE and they've never looked back. I have yet to see a mayor private organization in SA use anything else. The ones I can name of the top of my head, Absa, Standard Bank, Momentum, Nedbank, just about every financial institution I've seen uses it.

There is a reason all mayor corporations that run enterprise websites use JEE, .NET just doesn't have the standards in place or the track record. I've also read a research paper or two on the subject and in terms of performance JEE was way ahead of .NET or anything else except one C++ based server (can't recall what it's called just now). I'm sure more research has been done on the topic but I'm not going to google scholar it just now, I'll leave that to you if you want to.

A language is a tool, there are lots of small companies in SA that swear by .NET and all the large companies swear by JEE. I've used both and I can clearly see that in terms of Enterprise websites JEE is king. Yes it's not easy to build a website, it takes time, which is why I say PHP for small websites. I've used all 3 of them and I'd say I'm close to power user level on all 3, so far nothing beats PHP in terms of development speed IMHO. On the other hand if you try and use JSE for Windows applications it's a fail IMHO, .NET is far better, hence my reasoning, each has it's target market.

I also think PHP is getting underscored significantly, there are quite a large number of VERY large websites running on PHP, among them Wikipedia and Facebook (front end at least).

Yeah, you assumed correctly.

Java running fast - had to be on a non-Windows environment then, eh? Then I would agree. As you mentioned, Java for Windows is a no-no.

 

[Gnome]

Yeah, you assumed correctly.

Java running fast - had to be on a non-Windows environment then, eh? Then I would agree. As you mentioned, Java for Windows is a no-no.

Yep, I rarely use Java in Windows, for console applications I can still handle it but when it comes to Windows GUI, Java is a no-no for me. Naturally running a JEE web server in Windows isn't a good idea, mostly because no production server environment that I can think of uses the JEE + Windows combination, if you have the money and you buy a solution, in terms of JEE none run on Windows, if you are cheap and you don't want to spend money you don't want to pay for Windows, hence my reasoning that any JEE + Windows combination would be less mature than the alternatives. It's pure speculation tho!