Delid - why Relid?

[Rouxenator]

I recently got a S1150 motherboard with CPU and RAM that I would have sold, but the buyer backed out. On second thought I decided to hold onto it since the last time I payed attention to intel was back in 2000 and this seems like a nice bit of kit to play with.

Currently the CPU on it is an i5-4690 but I did some research and found a i7-4770K on eBay and I am in the process of importing it. Part of my research revealed that the TIM used on these were poor leading to terrible thermals - especially with age such as the one I am getting. Now I have "by accident" once delided a Core2Duo and "by accident" I mean it was an old CPU I had lying on my desk as a fidget toy and eventually the lid came off - so I never used it again and can't tell if it worked.

Now I do plan to delid the i7 once I get it, my question is why would you want to relid it? Most guides and videos I see out there all end up with a relid? Seems pretty pointless to me as back in the Socket-A days I ran processors without a lid straight out of the box.

 

[rh1]

The heading is confusing. So you asking why after taking the lid of the I7 (De-Lid) would you put the lid again on (Re-Lid) (I.e what are the advantages for doing this).

I cannot help you as this outside of my sphere. But am now suddenly interested.

 

[Rouxenator]

The heading is confusing. So you asking why after taking the lid of the I7 (De-Lid) would you put the lid again on (Re-Lid) (I.e what are the advantages for doing this).

I cannot help you as this outside of my sphere. But am now suddenly interested.

Indeed - for example here they added the lid again : https://www.techjunkies.nl/2018/02/26/delidding-our-haswell-intel-core-i7-4770k/
I also noted there are pure copper lids available on eBay and wish.com

I always thought the whole idea of delid was to get less obstruction between the cooler and the processor.
This is the cooler I plan to run on it : https://www.wootware.co.za/cooler-m...-hyper-212-spectrum-120mm-fan-cpu-cooler.html
This is the delid tool I plan to user : https://www.wish.com/product/5bf65dd8dfa27f1314b72581

 

[SubtleBeast]

I recently got a S1150 motherboard with CPU and RAM that I would have sold, but the buyer backed out. On second thought I decided to hold onto it since the last time I payed attention to intel was back in 2000 and this seems like a nice bit of kit to play with.

Currently the CPU on it is an i5-4690 but I did some research and found a i7-4770K on eBay and I am in the process of importing it. Part of my research revealed that the TIM used on these were poor leading to terrible thermals - especially with age such as the one I am getting. Now I have "by accident" once delided a Core2Duo and "by accident" I mean it was an old CPU I had lying on my desk as a fidget toy and eventually the lid came off - so I never used it again and can't tell if it worked.

Now I do plan to delid the i7 once I get it, my question is why would you want to relid it? Most guides and videos I see out there all end up with a relid? Seems pretty pointless to me as back in the Socket-A days I ran processors without a lid straight out of the box.

Don't think you'll need to delid your CPU except if you're a serious overclocker.
Turned an old Lenovo desktop into a cheap gaming system for my nephew a couple years back.
It came with a 4770 and I kept the stock cooler as the temps, even during gaming, were really good.
Suggest you first run the CPU in your rig and see what the temps are like.

 

[Rouxenator]

I'll do that for sure while I wait for the delid tool to arrive, but the reason I went with a K was to overclock it. I did consider a Xeon but that would be less fun.

 

[Mr.Jax]

What I've see others do on the interwebs (Derbauer on youtube comes to mind):

For the most effective cooling, don't re-lid, but note that you might have to make hardware changes to your cooling system so that the heatsink actually touches the silicon die properly. There is also some risk here, you could damage the silicon die if you're not careful.

What I've seen others do is re-lid by either using liquid metal as your TIM or a better regular TIM - I think this is the primary reason why people de-lid processors.

But you'll have to research this when using Liquid Metal (the stuff corrodes some metals).

Just my 2c.

 

[ArmatageShanks]

Because the Die is fragile

So fix the kak and put the lid back to protect it and such

Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Of course it would be better thermally to pop your cooler directly on the die, but meh, just now you kick your case walking past or you skop die ding when it lags or something and then the die and cooler make love to the death.


Reminds me of some AMD athlon I had decades ago, didn't have lids back then, straight on the Die, think it was 800mhz or so but could OC to 1.4 chop chop with those little blue swich boxes I forget the name of.
Forget the cooler and it'll explode in 1 second

 

[SubtleBeast]

I'll do that for sure while I wait for the delid tool to arrive, but the reason I went with a K was to overclock it. I did consider a Xeon but that would be less fun.

There's overclocking and then there's extreme overclocking.
Delidding would only really be necessary for the latter.
Your Hyper would be able to handle a mild overclock.
Depending on how high an overclock you want I'd suggest a beefier air or a small liquid cooler, but you're a tinkerer so I suppose the delid would be the only option?

 

[Rouxenator]

Reminds me of some AMD athlon I had decades ago, didn't have lids back then, straight on the Die, think it was 800mhz or so but could OC to 1.4 chop chop with those little blue swich boxes I forget the name of.
Forget the cooler and it'll explode in 1 second

While I never forgot the cooler, I remember that the old Socket-A processors had no built in thermal detection and instead relied on a thermister on the motherboard touching the back of the CPU, like so :

These were not as accurate and as fast as what intel included inside their processors, but that did not matter for a die hard AMD fan boi like me. I am sure quite a few AMDs died a firey death back in the day

The reason I am not afraid of running the i7 with the delid is because I never lost any Socket-A processors and I did upgrade through quite a few back in those days.

 

[Rouxenator]

Ah yes - those good old days - when getting it wrong meant loosing your processor. Those thermisters/thermal diodes were no good.

 

[ArmatageShanks]

While I never forgot the cooler, I remember that the old Socket-A processors had no built in thermal detection and instead relied on a thermister on the motherboard touching the back of the CPU, like so :
View attachment 1374039
These were not as accurate and as fast as what intel included inside their processors, but that did not matter for a die hard AMD fan boi like me. I am sure quite a few AMDs died a firey death back in the day

The reason I am not afraid of running the i7 with the delid is because I never lost any Socket-A processors and I did upgrade through quite a few back in those days.

Ohhh the memmories

Ohh the stupidity.... Got my first few GPU's from a random ander Oom with a box of old parts, don't remember exactly which but some Voodoo cards... I was smart enough to be concerned about GPU temperature but they didn't have sensors, so I didn't just touch the heatsinks to check, I for some reason decided to touch the back of the pcb where the core was, instantly the gpu changed to hippie LSD mode with rendering errors, and crashed everywhere.

I repeated this on 3 cards before coming to the conclusion that I shouldn't touch the fscking circuitry

 

[SubtleBeast]

While I never forgot the cooler, I remember that the old Socket-A processors had no built in thermal detection and instead relied on a thermister on the motherboard touching the back of the CPU, like so :
View attachment 1374039
These were not as accurate and as fast as what intel included inside their processors, but that did not matter for a die hard AMD fan boi like me. I am sure quite a few AMDs died a firey death back in the day

The reason I am not afraid of running the i7 with the delid is because I never lost any Socket-A processors and I did upgrade through quite a few back in those days.
View attachment 1374043


View attachment 1374047

View attachment 1374049

View attachment 1374051

Damn that cooler though.
All copper?
Wonder what something like that would cost today.

 

[Vorastra]

On an aside, isn't delidding po3s hard now on newer chips due to different solder being used? IIRC there's a very good chance of ripping things off now

 

[Fulcrum29]

Ah yes - those good old days - when getting it wrong meant loosing your processor. Those thermisters/thermal diodes were no good.

Didn't you use contact frames back then? I still have some lying around here somewhere. It was funny to see Thermal Grizzly bring contact frames back for LGA 1700. The frames back in day helped a lot for better contact.

 

[Xtm]

Direct die will give you high overclock headroom tolerance. You can find some liquid metal is the best for that

 

[Rouxenator]

Damn that cooler though.
All copper?
Wonder what something like that would cost today.

No idea - a lot I guess. That was the first after market cooler I ever bought and it was amazing. The GigaByte Copper Tower I think was what it was called. Way better than the 5000rpm stock AMD coolers.

Direct die will give you high overclock headroom tolerance. You can find some liquid metal is the best for that

I have some Kryonaut lafet that I will use. Did me no good on my NH-L9x65 SE-AM4 - guess the cooler was not beefy enough to begin with.

 

[SubtleBeast]

No idea - a lot I guess. That was the first after market cooler I ever bought and it was amazing. The GigaByte Copper Tower I think was what it was called. Way better than the 5000rpm stock AMD coolers.

3D Cooler Ultra to be exact. Read up on it a bit. A real engineering marvel. It competed against the CM Hyper 6 and the TT Silent, but what amazes is how small it is compared to those two.

Would probably have been the ultimate cooler if it wasn't for the centrifugal fan.
Apparently it was quite noisy at top speed. One review site measured 63dB.

 

[Rouxenator]

3D Cooler Ultra to be exact. Read up on it a bit. A real engineering marvel. It competed against the CM Hyper 6 and the TT Silent, but what amazes is how small it is compared to those two.

Would probably have been the ultimate cooler if it wasn't for the centrifugal fan.
Apparently it was quite noisy at top speed. One review site measured 63dB.

It was noisy indeed - but still a heck of a lot better that the crappy "stock" Rectron cooler my Athlon came with.

 

[Rickster]

There is a reason its called a (Internal) Heat Spreader.

 

[Rouxenator]

There is a reason its called a (Internal) Heat Spreader.

If it can handle 4.5GHz on the 4470K (a full 1GHz overclock) it can stay. Pity they skimped on the solder with Haswell.

After running it as a naked motherboard on the table top I was so impressed with the i5 I decided to give this build a nice house.


(yes I will get a 12V CPU ATX extension to hide that cable)

I have had many Hyper 212s but not with so much RGB - the RAM is pushed against it.


I might not delid the i7 if it behaves - the i5 dropped from 65°C to 52°C with this cooler. It is under 100% load 24/7.