Democracy does not work

Democracy isn't the best system there is, but it's the system that works the best.
 
I can't see Timocracy or Technocracy working. I think it's unjust to allow only a certain group to be able to be involved in government. The common man in the street would have no real say, simply because he doesn't have a degree or because he perhaps doesn't own a house? How is a land owner more capable of running the country?

There are over 40 parties vieing for votes in the upcoming elections. For sure there is a strong likelihood that the ANC will be voted in again but that is due to the majority of the population electing them. Fair is fair.
 
I guess that the assumption is that a candidate will be more popular if he has some abilities. Trouble is that this presumes voters can tell when a candidate is lying about their abilities. History shows that this isnt always so.

Its not so much that democracy doesnt work, rather that is the best system compared to others. Timocracy and technocracy will eventually fail, probably violently, because the majority will feel left out.

The most successfull countries are democracies with a relatively high level of education and employment. At any one point in time there may be some that seem to be bucking that trend, but they tend not last and the fact they may exist now is misleading.

New democracies fail because of corruption which is generally due to too high proportion of the population not educated. Other systems fail because they exclude too many from the political process. Democracy gives the allusion of participation. As long they are voting someone out every 10years or so, or politicions resign after been caught out in some scandel, then the majority feel that they have some say. Take that away and eventually there will be a problem
 
Serqet said:
I can't see Timocracy or Technocracy working. I think it's unjust to allow only a certain group to be able to be involved in government. The common man in the street would have no real say, simply because he doesn't have a degree or because he perhaps doesn't own a house? How is a land owner more capable of running the country?

There are over 40 parties vieing for votes in the upcoming elections. For sure there is a strong likelihood that the ANC will be voted in again but that is due to the majority of the population electing them. Fair is fair.
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Argument for timocracy: As I said the land owners thing should be different, but those who positively contribute to a country should have more say than some other fellow. There more 'productive' you are the more influnce you have on government.

Argument for (democratic)techocracy: I would never support a dictatorship or an authoritarian government. I was thinking along the lines of a democracy that would vote in a certain group of intellectuals to rule the country. Not some populist.


I disagree democracy is NOT fair, it does not guarantee the best government. I think a timocracy/technocracy will have a better probability of having a successful government.
 
butc8 said:
I disagree democracy is NOT fair, it does not guarantee the best government. I think a timocracy/technocracy will have a better probability of having a successful government.
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Democracy guarentees that you get what you ask for. With a bit more. Good and bad :D

Timocracy/technocracy will encourage corruption by forcing people to buy into that elite by any means possible. Once that corruption becomes entrenched and part of the system, its only a matter of time before it destroyes itself
 
zippy said:
Democracy guarentees that you get what you ask for. With a bit more. Good and bad :D

Timocracy/technocracy will encourage corruption by forcing people to buy into that elite by any means possible. Once that corruption becomes entrenched and part of the system, its only a matter of time before it destroyes itself
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Oh and that brings me to another point, politicians should get minimal pay (as much as the average public servant gets).Politicians should not be allowed to take part in any commercial business and this should be part of the constitution.
After that only the people who really give a s%1t will aspire to become politicians and corruption becomes a lot more tricky.

Am I being optomistic?:p
 
Well our government has shown how kleptocracy doesn't work, so that one's ruled out...
 
butc8 said:
Oh and that brings me to another point, politicians should get minimal pay (as much as the average public servant gets).Politicians should not be allowed to take part in any commercial business and this should be part of the constitution.
After that only the people who really give a s%1t will aspire to become politicians and corruption becomes a lot more tricky.

Am I being optomistic?:p
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I expect you are :D

We could pay them loads more so that they dont need to the extra cash from bribes. But then we tried that with bankers and look where it got us
 
DJK said:
Well our government has shown how kleptocracy doesn't work, so that one's ruled out...
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lol:D

zippy said:
I expect you are :D

We could pay them loads more so that they dont need to the extra cash from bribes. But then we tried that with bankers and look where it got us
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Maybe I could start my own country????
What to name it.....how bout Utopia:p
 
butc8 said:
Argument for timocracy: As I said the land owners thing should be different, but those who positively contribute to a country should have more say than some other fellow. There more 'productive' you are the more influnce you have on government.

Argument for (democratic)techocracy: I would never support a dictatorship or an authoritarian government. I was thinking along the lines of a democracy that would vote in a certain group of intellectuals to rule the country. Not some populist.


I disagree democracy is NOT fair, it does not guarantee the best government. I think a timocracy/technocracy will have a better probability of having a successful government.
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Okay so who gets to decide what makes one person more productive than the other? You don't think corruption would sneak in here too? Government would still be run by humans and we are all flawed. "i'll give you 10k if you say i'm productive."

Intellectuals don't necessarily make for a well-run government. Greed, corruption are just some of the problems we face at the moment and this would not change. We don't have problems because everyone in parliament is an idiot even though this is debatable :)

You are right it doesn't always ensure the best government but it does ensure an overall consensus and that is the whole point.
 
I hate the fact that a criminal has the same say as me, a hard working, TAX paying, member of society.
 
EtienneK said:
I hate the fact that a criminal has the same say as me, a hard working, TAX paying, member of society.
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You can thank Human Rights for that.

The world will go under, in the foreseeable future, because of the fanaticism about human rights.
 
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