Don't buy a DSLR

Yeah, I agree on the cost. That wasn't really my argument though. I've never opened a DSLR so I don't know what makes up all the bulk, but I know it's not the mirror box. If it was the mirror box, my K1000 wouldn't still about the size of the A7 (if not smaller).

I am not familiar with the lens system used by the A7, so keep that in mind in what follows.

The reason why we expect mirrorless cameras to be smaller can be attributed to the distance between the rear lens element and the sensor (flange focal distance, roughly) potentially being shorter than that of DSLRs. DSLRs flange focal distance is governed by the mirror box (so that the mirror does not strike the lens while flipping up).

So if you design a new lens mount along with your mirrorless body, you may be able to exploit a shorter flange focal distance to make the body thinner. Not sure how this will impact lens designs (in terms of size/weight) in general, but I suspect some wide-angle lenses can be built without the retrofocal group if the flange focal distance is shorter.

Unfortunately, the shorter flange focal distance also means the light will hit the edge of the sensor at a shallower angle, which is undesirable in terms of microlens design and cross-talk (i.e. colour bleeding in the corners unrelated to CA). But Sony is working on a curved sensor which should (in theory) remove this hurdle.

And then you have to consider legacy lenses designed for DSLRs. You should always be able to build an adaptor to make them work with a mirrorless body (with a shorter flange focal distance), but adding an adaptor negates the benefit of the thinner body, not to mention the slight tilt it may introduce to the lens mount, further ruining image quality.

So it actually makes sense to build a mirrorless body that retains an existing lens mount (designed for DSLRs), unless you are also building a complete set of lenses for your new mount too.

But then your mirrorless body will be more-or-less the same thickness as DSLRs, although it should shed a few grams in weight (no pentaprism in viewfinder, no mirrorbox). Not sure what route Sony chose for the A7.
 
Sony is using a dedicated mirror-less design with dedicated lenses (E-mount rather than A-mount). I agree with everything you said though. All I'm saying is, from what I've seen so far, the space/weight savings are not convincing. Who knows, there may be room for improvement. It may be that the first generation E-mount lenses are based on existing A-mount lenses, but I seriously doubt that.
 
Got a mirrorless GH4 at work which I now use more than our 5D MkIII. The only problem is MFT lenses - so using a Metabones speed booster does help.
 
What about the lenses are problematic? Which lenses do you have?

I'm absolutely loving the 20mm f/1.7 II :)

Nothing wrong with the lenses - it's just the investment into EF lenses.

Got the kit 14-140mm and the 14mm prime. Got the metabones for the EF lenses too, so overall very happy! :)
 
Oh, I remember these now. I looked at it when it was still in development. It's a bit pricey though!
 
Oh, I remember these now. I looked at it when it was still in development. It's a bit pricey though!

They definitely can be.

I've got a Canon 14mm F/2.8 which looks superb on the MkIII, but looks shyte on the GH4 with the speed booster (noticeable aberrations) ... That's where my gripes with MFT come from, but I'm really just nit picking.

Love the GH4 non-the-less. :D
 
I've got a Canon 14mm F/2.8 which looks superb on the MkIII, but looks shyte on the GH4 with the speed booster (noticeable aberrations) ... That's where my gripes with MFT come from, but I'm really just nit picking.

So it's not actually the MFT lenses you're complaining about, it's the non-MFT lenses ;)

This is the compromise with using the speed booster - I bet if you use the adapter without the speed booster (i.e. there's no cheap glass in-between) that 14mm f/2.8 would make you real happy.

I would definitely recommend looking at the native MFT primes. The Panasonic 20mm f/1.7 is excellent and quite cheap. The original and version II are optically identical, the II version just has slightly better build quality. The Olympus primes are very good too.
 
So it's not actually the MFT lenses you're complaining about, it's the non-MFT lenses ;)

This is the compromise with using the speed booster - I bet if you use the adapter without the speed booster (i.e. there's no cheap glass in-between) that 14mm f/2.8 would make you real happy.

Exactly. :)

I love the 14mm on the MkIII. Gonna have to invest in some good MFT primes.
 
I thought I do a quick weight comparison between my usual travel kit (body, 70-200, and 24-105) and my EOS-M replacement kit (body, 22mm, adapter, and a 24-105 for the longer stuff) and I've shaved off a little more than 2.7kg.

My [formerly] aching back thanks me. :)
 
I thought I do a quick weight comparison between my usual travel kit (body, 70-200, and 24-105) and my EOS-M replacement kit (body, 22mm, adapter, and a 24-105 for the longer stuff) and I've shaved off a little more than 2.7kg.

5DmkIII (950g), 15mm Fisheye (330g), 50mm f/1.4 (290g), 17-40mm f/4 (475g), 24-105mm f/4 (670g), 200mm f/2.8 (765g) = 3480g

GX7 (402g), 9mm Fisheye (165g), 20mm f/1.7 (100g), 7-14mm f/4 (300g), 12-35mm f/2.8 (305g), 35-100mm f/2.8 (360g) = 1632g

That's a 1.8kg saving. Not exactly bwana's 2.7kg, but I did include the three zooms that are quite heavy (1kg altogether) and I might still decide to go for a few primes instead. I've only bought the 20mm f/1.7 so far.

My [formerly] aching back thanks me. :)

Yeah, that's what got me in the end too. :(
 
5DmkIII (950g), 15mm Fisheye (330g), 50mm f/1.4 (290g), 17-40mm f/4 (475g), 24-105mm f/4 (670g), 200mm f/2.8 (765g) = 3480g

GX7 (402g), 9mm Fisheye (165g), 20mm f/1.7 (100g), 7-14mm f/4 (300g), 12-35mm f/2.8 (305g), 35-100mm f/2.8 (360g) = 1632g

That's a 1.8kg saving. Not exactly bwana's 2.7kg, but I did include the three zooms that are quite heavy (1kg altogether) and I might still decide to go for a few primes instead. I've only bought the 20mm f/1.7 so far.



Yeah, that's what got me in the end too. :(
That's a lot of duplication - something I'm glad I avoided.
 
How do you mean? Other than the 15mm FE and 50mm f/1.4 (which has specific uses) there is no duplication?

I'm talking about comparable effective focal lengths across two systems.
 
I'm talking about comparable effective focal lengths across two systems.

Aah, right. I don't see how I could avoid that though. I know what I like using, so that's what I'm going to have no matter what system I'm using (my back is glad I didn't get into Medium Format!).

I have considered using both systems, for example the 5D + 24-105L and maybe the 50mm f/1.4, and add everything else on the m43. But the m43 body ofsets the weight savings of the lenses.

I suspect I could have avoided this (costly) exercise by spending some quality gym time... :/
 
Aah, right. I don't see how I could avoid that though. I know what I like using, so that's what I'm going to have no matter what system I'm using (my back is glad I didn't get into Medium Format!).

I have considered using both systems, for example the 5D + 24-105L and maybe the 50mm f/1.4, and add everything else on the m43. But the m43 body ofsets the weight savings of the lenses.

I suspect I could have avoided this (costly) exercise by spending some quality gym time... :/
Running two incompatible systems is just not an option for me. TBH if it hadn't been for the M I would have skipped the whole mirrorless thing altogether.
 
Running two incompatible systems is just not an option for me.

Aah right, sorry. I'm with you now. I don't really intend to have two identical systems, though. If the m43 things work out well, I might sell some of my lesser used DSLR lenses (the 200mm, for example). Then again, I already own the lot, so other than raising my insurance premium a bit, it doesn't bother me all that much :)
 
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