Don't buy a DSLR

I can only comment properly on the Nikon V1 with which I have had some experience. Regarding whether only the phase detect sites or all sites are read out, this sensor does both. It has a hybrid AF system which uses both the 73 PDAF points on the sensor and a 135 point contrast detect AF off the rest of the sensor. The camera then evaluates which is providing the most relevant information. In order to facilitate this the camera has a processing engine that starts evaluating the scene the moment there is any pressure on the shutter release rather than waiting for the conventional halfway position to be reached.

The result is an autofocus that achieves 10 fps in actual focus adjustments, as distinct from the burst shooting rate of 60 fps. Getting this type of AF speed brings up the issue well known to SLR shooters where the stroke of the lens can affect the performance. The lenses have been designed to have a minimum of moving mass during focus to maximise the focus speed.

My new SLR (Pentax K3) can achieve similar autofocus speed on PDAF, all depending on the conditions. It is at it's best on spot AF with a prime lens. The performance drops off dramatically on contrast detect in live view mode. The performance in video – well you don't buy a Pentax for video.

With the price difference between mirrorless and SLRs, I haven't been able to figure it out either. In the US the mirrorless cameras seem to launch at a high price for the early adopters and then come down thereafter. Locally the launch prices remain until the last of the cameras are put into the bargain bin.
 
I got a Canon EOS 6D and a 85mm lens with a red circle around it as a birthday present from my brother. I'm new to photography but I know any canon lens with a red circle around it is expensive. Gonna get me a good flash and some SD cards this weekend and fire it up.
 
Well, as someone who owns both a DSLR, a Sony RX-100 compact and (more recently) a Panasonic GX7, and as someone who is fairly competent at using my gear, I can comment on this:

The RX-100 is excellent. I took it travelling through Asia for two months as my video camera - bought it specifically because at the time it was the only 1" sensor compact, and it does 1080p/i at 50fps, and the lens is f/1.8 on the wide end. The results - both still and video - were very good.

BUT

It doesn't hold a candle to the DSLR in anything but size and weight. The pictures from the DSLR are superior in every way. At low ISO the difference is negligible - hard to tell even, but anything over 1600, the difference shows. Yes, the RX-100 can still make nice pictures, even at 6400, but not as good as the DSLR.

The image quality is arguably the lesser of the drawbacks. The biggest problems are ergonomics, controls, and speed. The RX-100 is slow. It takes several seconds to turn on and be ready to shoot. When you leave it on, it switches itself off after a while (power saving), which includes folding away the lens. I missed a lot of shots because of this. The DSLR's power saving by contrast turns off the camera, but it's instant on and ready to shoot.

Switching between modes is also slow. It shows you the information/splash screen for each mode every time you switch between modes. This wastes two or so seconds, you have to click OK, and you cannot turn off this "feature."

Another problem is AF performance, while accurate, is slow and a bit of a ball ache if the camera disagrees with you about what to focus on.

All of the above goes for the GX7 too, but to a lesser extent. It has more buttons for direct controls, controls are more configurable, the firmware runs a lot faster, etc. Image quality is superb - good enough that I'm seriously considering building out the system and using that as my travel kit - to replace my DSLR and lenses with like for like results in just over 1KG of kit (down from over 8KG)

But it is still well behind the DSLR, so it's still a compromise. And the result of that compromise is always missed shows that I know I would have gotten with the DSLR.
 
Shaun108 said:
I got a Canon EOS 6D and a 85mm lens with a red circle around it as a birthday present from my brother. I'm new to photography but I know any canon lens with a red circle around it is expensive. Gonna get me a good flash and some SD cards this weekend and fire it up.
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The only red circle 85mm I know of is the EF 85mm f/1.2 L II USM Lens and that costs more that the body he gave you. :eek:

Curious choice of lens for someone just starting.
 
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one that doesn't mind the bulk and heft of SLRs :o

I have a little Canon IXUS point and shoot, it slips into a pocket easily and it takes nice photos, but I just find that holding those thin flat cameras with no grips and LCD screens to be... iffy. Compared to a DSLR which moulds into your hands, and while looking through the view finder you can brace it against yourself.

Looking at the advancements in imaging technology, compact/non-DSLR cameras have really made leaps and bounds in the last few years. For many of them, I doubt I'd be able to tell the difference in photos between the two. However, just as important is actually being able to use the camera to get the images. I find that just using and operating my current DSLR and its lenses is a pleasure in itself.

That being said, I wouldn't mind one of those Fuji X100Ts or something if anyone is feeling generous :D
 
swift412 said:
Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one that doesn't mind the bulk and heft of SLRs :o
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For day to day I prefer the larger DSLR but when it comes to travel - especially on a family trip - I'd rather have something lighter with me, as long as I'm not compromising on usability and IQ too much.

FWIW the EOS-M weighs in at just a little bit more than the 1Dx's battery! :)
 
garyc said:
I can only comment properly on the Nikon V1 with which I have had some experience. Regarding whether only the phase detect sites or all sites are read out, this sensor does both. It has a hybrid AF system which uses both the 73 PDAF points on the sensor and a 135 point contrast detect AF off the rest of the sensor.
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Well, that answers part of my question; it seems that the V1 will read out the entire sensor anyway. I know the V1 has impressive internal bandwidth (full res as 60 FPS at least) --- so you probably have to start looking at a good cooling solution to keep the temperatures manageable (if you want to target more continuous professional use). I think I saw a patent (might have been Nikon) that dealt with forced cooling. Still, if a design forces you to read out the entire sensor, you might as well use all the benefits. This appears to be what Samsung is doing with the NX1: they downscale the full sensor image to produce their 4k video output (rather than skipping lines like most DSLRs do). Not sure if the use the same downscaling method to drive the EVF (the claimed 5 ms EVF lag would require a readout rate of 200 FPS, so they probably do some selective sampling of the sensor for the EVF, rather than full readout).

Either way, combining PDAF with CDAF is certainly gives you the best of both worlds. It looks like the real battle is going to be around processing power and the readout speed of your sensor (with Samsung establishing a decent lead on the NX1, although the Nikon V1 still outstrips all the DSLRs in Nikons line-up w.r.t. internal bandwidth).


garyc said:
The performance drops off dramatically on contrast detect in live view mode.
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Exactly. This is probably because DSLR designs were typically not optimized to maximise sensor readout speed. While a burst rate of ~10 FPS might sound impressive (say, Nikon D4), this is still quite slow, especially if you have to feed your CDAF process. It does appear that this is changing, though, with the 70D's dual-pixel sensor (which is probably used in a hybrid AF approach too). So at least we know Canon is moving in that direction.

Nikon also appears to have switched from a Fujitsu processor to an ARM-based processor (EXPEED 4a). This should make it easier for them to scale up their processing power to improve internal bandwidth (assuming of course you can read out your sensor quickly enough).

I have also seen some posts on the image sensors world blog that hint that you can build your CDAF right into the sensor (think stacked designs). That obviates the need to move all the pixels off the sensor during CDAF, with a lot of the processing taking place right there behind the actual pixels. That only leaves you with the heat problem :)

All of this seems to point to a move towards on-sensor PDAF + CDAF hybrid methods in the near future, which makes the optical viewfinder a liability rather than an asset.
 
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bwana said:
The only red circle 85mm I know of is the EF 85mm f/1.2 L II USM Lens and that costs more that the body he gave you. :eek:

Curious choice of lens for someone just starting.
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It weighs like a kilogram, huge thing that lens. I didn't ask where he got it from, amazed that it costs that much tho.
 
Shaun108 said:
It weighs like a kilogram, huge thing that lens. I didn't ask where he got it from, amazed that it costs that much tho.
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Probably better not to ask too many questions. That is one sweet lens though - one that most of us will only ever drool over.
 
Shaun108 said:
It weighs like a kilogram, huge thing that lens. I didn't ask where he got it from, amazed that it costs that much tho.
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It doesn't. The red line indicates it is a reject lens (red = bad). Just because your hopes were lifted, I will take the hit and offer to trade a lens with a GOLD ring around it for yours at no extra expense to you.

Am I a pal or what?

Edit - I'm doing a LOT for you, postage is on you :)
 
Oj0 said:
Wasn't the AF issue fixed with a firmware update a while back?
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Improved, definitely but it's not something that can be fixed.
 
Shaun108 said:
I got a Canon EOS 6D and a 85mm lens with a red circle around it as a birthday present from my brother. I'm new to photography but I know any canon lens with a red circle around it is expensive. Gonna get me a good flash and some SD cards this weekend and fire it up.
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Now if your brother parted with a White Lens.....
 
From Petapixel:

Rumor: Canon to Get Serious About Mirrorless in 2015, Has a Full Frame MILC in the Works

It’s almost too much to hope for, so we’ll tell you to start with the salt and go from there on this rumor. Apparently, sources are saying Canon is finally going to get serious about mirrorless cameras this upcoming year by releasing an all-new mirrorless camera that will sport a full-frame sensor. *insert high pitch noises here*

Okay, sorry about that, back to business. The news comes from our friends at Canon Watch, who heard nearly identical information from two separate sources saying that there is a new mirrorless cam in the works that is NOT a standard followup to the EOS-M system that Canon seems to have given up on in the US.

One of those sources said that this camera will sport a full-frame sensor (hence the high pitch noises), the other that it would be a rangefinder. Either sounds, if nothing else, intriguing. Canon Watch also quotes a source as saying that this is a camera consumers “will really like, and that’s what we were all waiting for.”

For now, the above info is all we know. Rumors of a new mirrorless camera from Canon have been swirling for some time, so there’s a good chance more info will leak before 2014 is out. You know where we’re going with this, but we’ll say it anyway: stay tuned and we’ll keep you up to date.
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I am hugely impressed by the Sony A7 series. But I'm not sure I get the point. The lenses are a *little* bit smaller than their DSLR cousins, but not much. I can only really see myself buy such a body if I already owned a Sony full frame DSLR and associated lenses, and carry that with me already, in which case the mirror-less body doesn't actually save me any space/weight.

The same would go for the Canon (if the above rumour pans out). I'm investing in a mirror-less system to avoid having to drag the full frame kit around with me when I travel abroad. Replacing my usual travel kit (about 8KG) with a full frame mirror-less would save me about half a kilo, if the Sony system is anything to go by. That's hardly worth the cost.
 
koffiejunkie said:
I am hugely impressed by the Sony A7 series. But I'm not sure I get the point. [snip] That's hardly worth the cost.
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Well, with the significant reduction in component count, and the removal of the mirror box (which itself adds significant calibration and alignment requirements), the actual production cost of the A7 should be lower than that of, say, the D810.

Once you are at the point where most people would agree that functionally the two approaches (DSLR vs mirrorless, both at 36x24 mm sensor size) are equivalent, i.e., AF performance and functionality is the same, and the EVF is just as good (or better) than the OVF, then the only meaningful remaining difference is the production cost.

Mirrorless cameras should be cheaper than DSLRs, but for the time being the market is allowing the manufacturers to get away with the larger profit margin ....
 
Yeah, I agree on the cost. That wasn't really my argument though. I've never opened a DSLR so I don't know what makes up all the bulk, but I know it's not the mirror box. If it was the mirror box, my K1000 wouldn't still about the size of the A7 (if not smaller).
 
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