Driven Hunts

Just about all ethical hunters in SA oppose this. It is not hunting.
But does have a place where culling is necessary.
I don't hunt anyways, but all the hunters I know believe in walking and stalking and fair chase.
 
I much prefer spending the time and effort walking and stalking what I want to shoot. It was half of the enjoyment and appreciation for me.
A guy I know of, the first time he sat on a bakkie/hide to hunt was when his medical condition stopped him from being able to walk with ease.
 
Instead of the animals running the gauntlet I would like the 'hunters' to try it through a gauntlet of starving carnivores.

It's not a hunt in any sense of the word.

Getting a hard-on from shooting a defenseless animal is just sad.
 
I'm thinking driven hunts will put ethical hunting in a bad light as well, especially from the PETA and bunny-hugger types.

[video=youtube;8PWH745MMMY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PWH745MMMY[/video]
 
Glock26 said:
Just about all ethical hunters in SA oppose this. It is not hunting.
But does have a place where culling is necessary.
I don't hunt anyways, but all the hunters I know believe in walking and stalking and fair chase.
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I am also against driven hunts, but trying to argue that your normal hunting expo involves stalking and fair chase is also a bit hypocritical. With normal hunts the animal does not really have a chance. Else amateurs would go on hunts and return empty handed most times. For some reason the hunter usually wins. What I do apreciate and where I think the main difference is is with normal hunts you are hunting and killing only one or maybe two animals and take care to not injure the animal and then actually eat the meat. There is a form of respect at least.
 
I have done a lot of hunting through out my life (had family owned farms since age 11 and lived on one permanemtly from age 14 to 18) and have personally been involved in all types of hunts (only animals that are eaten).

Basically, the way I see it is as follows:
1) if I want to do it for the enjoyment/experience of the activity I take the gun and walk from home before daylight. I shoot the animal, remove the inards and radio labourers with clear instructions where to find the animal to pick it up and take back to the abbatoir. I would continue this for most of the day, shooting several buck and going mostly for very young animals, weak rams/bulls or old bulls that have been kicked out of the tribe. I really enjoyed this type of hunting, and still occasionally do.
2) I would almost always drive around with a rifle at the start of hunting season. And if I happened to get a good shot on an old/inferior male animal I would take it. The reasons for this were twofold, firstly, I was making ekstra pocket money by selling the meat and secondly, you dont want inferior animals to breed. I never particularly enjoyed this kind of hunting, though it didn't bother me much.
3) about every third year we would cull springbuck. This involved lining up myself, the farm manager and 2 professional hunters and getting labourers to chase the animals past us repeatedly. We would shoot 300 animals in a day. I absolutely hated this, but understood the neccesity of the practice. What bothered me more than killing so many animals was the extreme levels of stress that the other animals were put through from being chased around and shot at for 9 hours straight.
This by the way is still one of the most popular "hunting" methods I am aware of, as it lets lazy *******s sit a drink for an entire day while shooting as many animals as they are willing to pay for.
 
I've been on two driven hunts in the karoo, one this year and one last year. No way you can stalk a springbok or any animal for that matter when there is not a single tree, thick bush or even rocks to walk/stalk/crawl/hide behind. Only karoo brush max 20cm high in the dry winter months. Usually you have to be 6 or so people, depending on the size of the farm. Then you all get dropped off at different spots and you either get told to stay right there and shoot in a certain direction only or you get told that you can move around in a small area and again only shoot in certain directions, depending on where the others gets dropped off. No hides/shelters etc, you need to lay down in the veld and "become one with the ground" as the farmer told us if we want to have any sort of chance at shooting anything.

When the first shot goes off the rest of the animals runs away, and sometimes stops close by where the next person is lying down, and he might have a shot. If he does then the rest of the animals again darts off and so it goes on. No need to actually have someone drive after them and help them along towards you. Last year the first day I did not see a single animal, chose a bad spot to get off I suppose, but so it goes. Second day I got dropped off at another spot and was able to shoot two springbuck, longest shot was maybe 120m.

The farmer also tells you beforehand what you are allowed to shoot and what you are not allowed to shoot, ie female or male only, depending on how many there are of each. The farm where we were on had about 430 springbuck and could only support about 300, our group got 13 for the 2 days, also 3 blesbuck and two warthogs.

So in the end we got our biltong and droewors, and we helped the farmer to "cull" his animals. I would rather do the walk and stalk, but on some farms it's not possible really and the only way the farmer can keep the population in control is through these driven hunts.
 
irBosOtter said:
I've been on two driven hunts in the karoo, one this year and one last year. No way you can stalk a springbok or any animal for that matter when there is not a single tree, thick bush or even rocks to walk/stalk/crawl/hide behind. Only karoo brush max 20cm high in the dry winter months. Usually you have to be 6 or so people, depending on the size of the farm. Then you all get dropped off at different spots and you either get told to stay right there and shoot in a certain direction only or you get told that you can move around in a small area and again only shoot in certain directions, depending on where the others gets dropped off. No hides/shelters etc, you need to lay down in the veld and "become one with the ground" as the farmer told us if we want to have any sort of chance at shooting anything.

When the first shot goes off the rest of the animals runs away, and sometimes stops close by where the next person is lying down, and he might have a shot. If he does then the rest of the animals again darts off and so it goes on. No need to actually have someone drive after them and help them along towards you. Last year the first day I did not see a single animal, chose a bad spot to get off I suppose, but so it goes. Second day I got dropped off at another spot and was able to shoot two springbuck, longest shot was maybe 120m.

The farmer also tells you beforehand what you are allowed to shoot and what you are not allowed to shoot, ie female or male only, depending on how many there are of each. The farm where we were on had about 430 springbuck and could only support about 300, our group got 13 for the 2 days, also 3 blesbuck and two warthogs.

So in the end we got our biltong and droewors, and we helped the farmer to "cull" his animals. I would rather do the walk and stalk, but on some farms it's not possible really and the only way the farmer can keep the population in control is through these driven hunts.
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It is very much possible to walk and stalk springbuck. I have shot probably 50 springuck in the Karoo through walk and stalk (in places like Wiliston, where there really is ****all). Granted it is not easy (in the beginning) and most of the time you are shooting between 200 and 300m, but it is far from impossible. If you actually know what you are doing it gets pretty easy after a while. My success rate with a rifle was close to 100% and I actually managed to get within about 50m one day when trying to shoot a springbuck in the karoo with a bow. It was still too far to shoot with a bow and to this day I still have not accomplished it. The reason alot of farmers discourage it is that generally you will maybe shoot 1 buck in a day and they have to close of the entire camp, so it's not an effective way of generating revenue. The method you described allows the "hunters" to shoot many buck (probably between 10 and 20 for an average party of 6), thereby increasing the revenue for the farmer.

Also, you might not know it, but there are people chasing the buck around >90% of the time, else the buck just end up hogging the areas where no one is allowed to shoot. This is mainly the reason why everyone shoots in the same general compass direction (you'll hardly ever find a hunt set up like this where one guy is shooting south and another guy is shooting north. Also, the farmer is pretty much lying to you about "becoming one with the ground". I have been part of hunts like these several times and as long as you choose your spot properly (close to a large shrub, at the foot of a hill, behind a pile of rocks), all you need to do is wait and shoot (0 skill involved).
 
JimmyRott said:
It is very much possible to walk and stalk springbuck. I have shot probably 50 springuck in the Karoo through walk and stalk (in places like Wiliston, where there really is ****all). Granted it is not easy (in the beginning) and most of the time you are shooting between 200 and 300m, but it is far from impossible. If you actually know what you are doing it gets pretty easy after a while. My success rate with a rifle was close to 100% and I actually managed to get within about 50m one day when trying to shoot a springbuck in the karoo with a bow. It was still too far to shoot with a bow and to this day I still have not accomplished it. The reason alot of farmers discourage it is that generally you will maybe shoot 1 buck in a day and they have to close of the entire camp, so it's not an effective way of generating revenue. The method you described allows the "hunters" to shoot many buck (probably between 10 and 20 for an average party of 6), thereby increasing the revenue for the farmer.

Also, you might not know it, but there are people chasing the buck around >90% of the time, else the buck just end up hogging the areas where no one is allowed to shoot. This is mainly the reason why everyone shoots in the same general compass direction (you'll hardly ever find a hunt set up like this where one guy is shooting south and another guy is shooting north. Also, the farmer is pretty much lying to you about "becoming one with the ground". I have been part of hunts like these several times and as long as you choose your spot properly (close to a large shrub, at the foot of a hill, behind a pile of rocks), all you need to do is wait and shoot (0 skill involved).
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Yes, stalked plenty of springbuck over the years, even on farms in the karoo, but not on the farm we went to the last two times. The farmer does not hunt himself at all, a sheep farmer, and he also does not allow anyone to chase the springbuck around for you either. One can see 5km's in every direction, believe me, on that farm no one is chasing anything lol. If there was we could have shot all 130 easily. Some of the shots were over 500m, I was just lucky to have them stop under 120m. (Except for a warthog that I shot at 430m, warthogs do not occur in that area naturally, some escaped from the farm next to his and he said if we see any we must kill them, no matter how small/big they are. They screw up his fences that keeps the jackals out of his sheep camps)

But yes, a lot of farmers do the driven hunt with either guys on horseback chasing them towards you, or guys walking around or even use vehicles or bikes. They can do what they want, I can't care less. But yes, that's not hunting, it's culling.

Edit: Just to add I have not seen anyone wound a animal on these two "driven" trips we went on, but the 5 walk and stack trips we did over the same period animals were wounded. Just because you can get 50m from one stalking does not mean you are going to kill it, crap happens, no matter how good of a shot you are.
 
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irBosOtter said:
Yes, stalked plenty of springbuck over the years, even on farms in the karoo, but not on the farm we went to the last two times. The farmer does not hunt himself at all, a sheep farmer, and he also does not allow anyone to chase the springbuck around for you either. One can see 5km's in every direction, believe me, on that farm no one is chasing anything lol. If there was we could have shot all 130 easily. Some of the shots were over 500m, I was just lucky to have them stop under 120m. (Except for a warthog that I shot at 430m, warthogs do not occur in that area naturally, some escaped from the farm next to his and he said if we see any we must kill them, no matter how small/big they are. They screw up his fences that keeps the jackals out of his sheep camps)

But yes, a lot of farmers do the driven hunt with either guys on horseback chasing them towards you, or guys walking around or even use vehicles or bikes. They can do what they want, I can't care less. But yes, that's not hunting, it's culling.

Edit: Just to add I have not seen anyone wound a animal on these two "driven" trips we went on, but the 5 walk and stack trips we did over the same period animals were wounded. Just because you can get 50m from one stalking does not mean you are going to kill it, crap happens, no matter how good of a shot you are.
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While I agree with almost everything you say, I don't see the appeal in sitting and waiting for a buck and then shooting it at all? There is literally no skill involved that couldn't be better tested by shooting at a target. Also, if you are not a professional hunter and you are taking shots at 500m it is pretty irresponsible/cruel. While I agree that getting 50 from one doesn't mean you are going to kill it you can take a lot of variance out of hunting by knowing your rifle and ammunition trajectories by heart, using a proper range finder and carrying a shooting stick to help take a more accurate shot.

I have not wounded an animal in many years. In fact I think I wounded 3 in total before I stopped aiming for vital organs and instead started aiming for the head. Since then I have missed a couple of shots, but I have not wounded a single animal. I only take shots at <300m even though I consider myself to be one of the most accurate amateur shots I have ever witnessed. At 500m with a 30-06 zeroed at 300m you are shooting +-1200cm low. That's a difficult amount to estimate accurately.
 
JimmyRott said:
While I agree with almost everything you say, I don't see the appeal in sitting and waiting for a buck and then shooting it at all? There is literally no skill involved that couldn't be better tested by shooting at a target. Also, if you are not a professional hunter and you are taking shots at 500m it is pretty irresponsible/cruel. While I agree that getting 50 from one doesn't mean you are going to kill it you can take a lot of variance out of hunting by knowing your rifle and ammunition trajectories by heart, using a proper range finder and carrying a shooting stick to help take a more accurate shot.

I have not wounded an animal in many years. In fact I think I wounded 3 in total before I stopped aiming for vital organs and instead started aiming for the head. Since then I have missed a couple of shots, but I have not wounded a single animal. I only take shots at <300m even though I consider myself to be one of the most accurate amateur shots I have ever witnessed. At 500m with a 30-06 zeroed at 300m you are shooting +-1200cm low. That's a difficult amount to estimate accurately.
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I agree 100% with what you are saying. Was one of my friends that took the 500m shot with a 300 Win Mag, he did get a ear full afterwards from the rest of us for that. He said he aimed 1m above the shoulder, lucky shot I guess, could easily have gone the other way. I have been hunting from the age of 5, so 31 years now. And go to the shooting range at least once a month. I only practice up to 400m (my 30-06 and .243 are both zeroed at 200m) My longest shot to date was on that warthog at 430m. Won't try that with a springbuck or even a bigger target like a kudu. On a hunting trip I never shoot at anything that's further than 250m anyway, that's the distance I still feel comfortable with.
I do use a rangefinder, shooting stick and sometimes bipod if I lie down. I can't judge distance at all, so a rangefinder for me is a must or I cannot take the shot.

But at R300 a springbuck, R600 a blesbuck and free warthog we just had to go, does get boring as hell lying on your own in the veld for 8+ hours and yes, no skill needed really. Driven hunts are not my scene, but did it twice now cause of the costs. We already booked 3 trips for next year, all walk and stalk this time, there is a 4th trip to Namibia but I am not going as it's a "bakkie skiet" farm, you are only allowed to shoot from the bakkie. I have done that when I was 19, so been there done that, but the rest of my friends has never been to the "rooi Kalahari duine" so they are going. I am still contemplating if I should not go with just for the "kuier" lol
 
As said before we need to differentiate between hunting and culling. Sometimes culling necessary part of farm management, tasteless as it may be.
 
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