Early retirement - Discussion

^^vampire^^ said:
Seems that a lot of people have issues with people being (or striving to be) financially free. It might be that they are jealous that they are not in a position to work to something like this or just can't wrap their head around the concept. I like to refer to it as financial freedom now instead of early retirement as people equate retirement to sitting on a couch with 'poppet' and wasting away while watching Clientele Life advertising on SABC 2.

I honestly cannot tell you the range of outrageous responses from people when I say that I want to retire early. "Why would you want to do that?" "Why do you want to sit around all day doing nothing?" etc etc. I can honestly say that working until you can't anymore has become so entrenched in peoples minds they physically and mentally are no longer able to fathom that life is not about just going to work Monday - Friday.

These same people don't understand that you could have a large chunk of your life back to do what you want. If you really enjoy your job after reaching your financial freedom goal, then great, go work. If you want to take 2 months off work then you can do that to; not really an option when you living paycheck to paycheck though. Want to sleep in or have a hangover, no problem when you're financially free. When living from paycheck to paycheck you have to make that "I'm sick" phone call to work. Want to go watch your sons soccer game at 2pm, oh wait you can't because you have to be at work... I could do this all day.
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Yes - a great motivator to be financially free?

I think the difference - without being condescending - is that the middle class and average income earners yearn to be financially free so as to not be dictated to by their work/bosses. It is one of those ultimate goals for the working middle class. It is different for true businesspeople. Although all of them are 1 000 times over financially free, why do the likes of Koos Bekker, Adrian Gore, Whitey Basson, Ivan Glassenberg, Stephen Saad, Christo Wiese, Johann Rupert, etc not retire at 40?

I will not attain their wealth and success in my lifetime, but I subscribe to this path as opposed to becoming a veg gardener or lying in with a hangover during the week, even if I am able to stop working today.

The working middle class is so fixated on getting to that retirement mark (and the sooner the better) that they live this frugal lifestyle and then in any event end up not having enough. I would much rather focus on having a long, successful career, living a normal life and being able to afford some luxuries over a longer period.
 
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RR777 said:
Yes - a great motivator to be financially free?

I think the difference - without being condescending
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You failed.

is that the middle class and average income earners yearn to be financially free so as to not be dictated to by their work/bosses.
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That's not the reason. They want their time for themselves. It has nothing to do with being dictated to and everything to do with the quality of life that you get from not working. At least I speak for myself here, I have no problem with someone else at work dictating to me.

It is different for true businesspeople. Although all of them are 1 000 times over financially free, why do the likes of Koos Bekker, Adrian Gore, Whitey Basson, Ivan Glassenberg, Stephen Saad, Christo Wiese, Johann Rupert, etc not retire at 40?
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I don't really care why they do anything. I'm not advocating that everyone should retire early. It's a life path that's open for some, and I think that the majority of people in this country could probably never get there, and I don't know if I could myself. You were the one who came on and declared that everyone who wanted to retire early was devoid of drive and ambition and just wanted to plant vegetable gardens all day, which despite best intentions, is incredibly condescending:

I will not attain their wealth and success in my lifetime, but I subscribe to this path as opposed to becoming a veg gardener or lying in with a hangover during the week, even if I am able to stop working today.
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The working middle class is so fixated on getting to that retirement mark (and the sooner the better) that they live this frugal lifestyle and then in any event end up not having enough. I would much rather focus on having a long, successful career, living a normal life and being able to afford some luxuries over a longer period.
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I don't know what the working middle class is fixated on; I don't particularly care either. I do know that my brother in law was an extremely successful entrepreneurial businessman for years, and just now retired at the age of 55 with a very good fortune. He retired because he was burned out and his marriage was collapsing and he wanted to get involved in community projects and spend time with his family, and it's done him a world of good. So take what you will /shrug
 
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cerebus said:
You failed.


That's not the reason. They want their time for themselves. It has nothing to do with being dictated to and everything to do with the quality of life that you get from not working. At least I speak for myself here, I have no problem with someone else at work dictating to me.


I don't really care why they do anything. I'm not advocating that everyone should retire early. It's a life path that's open for some, and I think that the majority of people in this country could probably never get there, and I don't know if I could myself. You were the one who came on and declared that everyone who wanted to retire early was devoid of drive and ambition and just wanted to plant vegetable gardens all day, which despite best intentions, is incredibly condescending:




I don't know what the working middle class is fixated on; I don't particularly care either. I do know that my brother in law was an extremely successful entrepreneurial businessman for years, and just now retired at the age of 55 with a very good fortune. He retired because he was burned out and his marriage was collapsing and he wanted to get involved in community projects and spend time with his family, and it's done him a world of good. So take what you will /shrug
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We obviously have very different outlooks in life - you want to count carrots in your 40's. I want to build my investments, properties and businesses when I am in the prime of my life. I am not burnt out either and spend plenty of time with my wife, kids and family and friends, including time at the leisure properties I own. I bought that with F-You money referred to in an earlier post.

But, you seem to have all the answers. Good for you.
 
I dunno hey I was reading somewhere that leaving RA/Pension in for just 5 yrs extra makes a huge difference and with many being fit till beyond retirement age maybe working till a bit later is a good thing especially give the tax benefits too.

I think, while some see it as relaxing period, a sudden change in lifestyle can age you too.. so instead of not working at all perhaps jobs should change accordingly?
 
RR777 said:
We obviously have very different outlooks in life - you want to count carrots in your 40's. I want to build my investments, properties and businesses when I am in the prime of my life. I am not burnt out either and spend plenty of time with my wife, kids and family and friends, including time at the leisure properties I own. I bought that with F-You money referred to in an earlier post.

But, you seem to have all the answers. Good for you.
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I have very few answers, believe me. I can dream of retiring sometime in my 40s, and maybe building my own house and doing the many things I listed above, which you never seem to notice because you're so fixated on bloody vegetable gardens. I don't think that is a likely scenario for me though. I think that I would be lucky to retire before 60 even with aggressive investing. I do feel that you've ignored any and all rebuttals put forward by various forumites to your points in the thread, perhaps thinking that they constitute an attack on your life choices when they are merely a defense of their own.

All I can really say is that for me,

1) I can find plenty of things to do with my time that are more worthwhile than what I'm doing at this moment, at work.
2) My finances aren't an expanding vacuum universe where each increase in income has a corresponding need to fill it. At some point in time, my income would simply expand beyond my projected needs, and at that point I'm not sure why I'd want to continue working.
 
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Shayd said:
Retirement tends to be a very personal journey. There is no 1 size fits all. Some people have enormous salaries and yet spend pretty frugally others consumer everything like bacteria.

I have sat with clients who have salaries over 50k nett but their expenses after the bond and children costs are removed are somewhere around 10 to 15k. They don't need anywhere near 75% to retire.

Then there are those who spend 2k on wine alone per month. These tend to get a shock when they retire.

To get an idea what you really need. Draw up a budget. Remove all debt expenses. Remove all childcare expenses. Then see how much you spend, this is very similar to what you need for retirement.

You might be surprised how little it actually is. For the cast majority of us the bond, car repayment and child care expenses are the bulk of our costs.

If you are still paying a bond or car when retired you have made some larger errors in judgement.
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+1
 
cerebus said:
I have very few answers, believe me. I can dream of retiring sometime in my 40s, and maybe building my own house and doing the many things I listed above, which you never seem to notice because you're so fixated on bloody vegetable gardens. I don't think that is a likely scenario for me though. I think that I would be lucky to retire before 60 even with aggressive investing. I do feel that you've ignored any and all rebuttals put forward by various forumites to your points in the thread, perhaps thinking that they constitute an attack on your life choices when they are merely a defense of their own.

All I can really say is that for me,

1) I can find plenty of things to do with my time that are more worthwhile than what I'm doing at this moment, at work.
2) My finances aren't an expanding vacuum universe where each increase in income has a corresponding need to fill it. At some point in time, my income would simply expand beyond my projected needs, and at that point I'm not sure why I'd want to continue working.
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Agree with this completely. Unfortunately he lacks the ability to read between the lines and can't think past what he perceives to be absolute literals within what we have typed. Now in his mind you will forever be the guy who wants to plant vegetables and I will forever be the guy who wants to stay in bed with a hangover. After all that's our only ambition in life. Better save me my monies so I can become an alcoholic.
 
RR777 said:
Yes - a great motivator to be financially free?

I think the difference - without being condescending - is that the middle class and average income earners yearn to be financially free so as to not be dictated to by their work/bosses. It is one of those ultimate goals for the working middle class. It is different for true businesspeople. Although all of them are 1 000 times over financially free, why do the likes of Koos Bekker, Adrian Gore, Whitey Basson, Ivan Glassenberg, Stephen Saad, Christo Wiese, Johann Rupert, etc not retire at 40?

I will not attain their wealth and success in my lifetime, but I subscribe to this path as opposed to becoming a veg gardener or lying in with a hangover during the week, even if I am able to stop working today.

The working middle class is so fixated on getting to that retirement mark (and the sooner the better) that they live this frugal lifestyle and then in any event end up not having enough. I would much rather focus on having a long, successful career, living a normal life and being able to afford some luxuries over a longer period.
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How old are you?

PS. I know Steven Sahd.

PPS. Early retirement is not equal to vegetable gardening, getting pissed midweek (today is an exception) or a lack of ambition.
 
^^vampire^^ said:
Agree with this completely. Unfortunately he lacks the ability to read between the lines and can't think past what he perceives to be absolute literals within what we have typed. Now in his mind you will forever be the guy who wants to plant vegetables and I will forever be the guy who wants to stay in bed with a hangover. After all that's our only ambition in life. Better save me my monies so I can become an alcoholic.
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God knows what he currently thinks I want to do, but let me cement it for him:

Fight crime and help people
 
supersunbird said:
God knows what he currently thinks I want to do, but let me cement it for him:

Fight crime and help people
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I'd help you fight crime but I don't think me stumbling around with my misplaced dutch courage would be of much use.
You would be helping people by putting me in the nearest bed to sleep it off though :whistle::D
 
RR777 said:
Now that is properly unambitious.
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Starting to think you are a troll bud. Your constant judgement of what you believe ambitious should be has completely derailed what could have been a very entertaining and informative thread.
 
Shayd said:
Starting to think you are a troll bud. Your constant judgement of what you believe ambitious should be has completely derailed what could have been a very entertaining and informative thread.
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Yeah I'm also thinking troll.
 
Just wanted to know if you still interested in going down this path cerebus? If you worried about the 4% rule, an easier (in my book anyway) of doing it is invest in decent dividend paying stocks and REITs -then only spend the income/dividend and never sell the capital. Generally dividends grow a few percentage points quicker than inflation so you have a few extra bucks in your pocket every year. Goes without saying a well diversifiend porfolio in sectors AND currency helps as well. Hope you've started on the veg patch - no need to wait or ER for that!
 
Wake up thread, you are 7 year old now - stop being lazy and get up..

Seriously, I was doing projections over weekends and if all my ETF's perform as well for next 10 years like they did in last 3 years, there may be light at end of tunnel for me in terms of early retirement.

On the other hand, if they perform at less than 8% YoY, then bam - another 5 years of monthly investments.

Anyone in same boat?
 
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