Electric car

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HavocXphere

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Yeah, the big news here is this new battery tech rather than the car itself, but still very exciting.
 
Hannemann couldn't give an exact price for his battery -- he said that was dependent on scaling effects -- but vowed it wouldn't just be more powerful, but in the end also cheaper than conventional lithium ion batteries.
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I've seen several electric battery and electric vehicle manufacturers making wild claims and then spending years trying to iron out "performance problems" before finally going bankrupt.
I can't wait until someone succeeds in making and marketing an affordable EV for the masses but I'm tired of all the "break throughs" with no follow through.
 
Paul_S said:
I've seen several electric battery and electric vehicle manufacturers making wild claims and then spending years trying to iron out "performance problems" before finally going bankrupt.
I can't wait until someone succeeds in making and marketing an affordable EV for the masses but I'm tired of all the "break throughs" with no follow through.
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Theres plenty of follow through. Go buy a Nissan Leaf :D
 
w1z4rd said:
Theres plenty of follow through. Go buy a Nissan Leaf :D
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You missed the "affordable" part.
Nissan Leaf (base model) plus charger is about R250 000.
Add about 40% tax and you're looking at R350 000 for a vehicle that only does about 112km on a charge and has the build quality of a Nissan.
Fail ... next please.
 
Paul_S said:
You missed the "affordable" part.
Nissan Leaf (base model) plus charger is about R250 000.
Add about 40% tax and you're looking at R350 000 for a vehicle that only does about 112km on a charge and has the build quality of a Nissan.
Fail ... next please.
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Oh I thought that was affordable. Okay, an EV car for poor people.. yeah we need one of those still.
 
Paul_S said:
You missed the "affordable" part.
Nissan Leaf (base model) plus charger is about R250 000.
Add about 40% tax and you're looking at R350 000 for a vehicle that only does about 112km on a charge and has the build quality of a Nissan.
Fail ... next please.
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Nothing wrong with Nissan build quality. Also, bear in mind that the average motorist would save around R1k a month on petrol, so that mitigates the higher purchase price somewhat.
 
BCO said:
Nothing wrong with Nissan build quality. Also, bear in mind that the average motorist would save around R1k a month on petrol, so that mitigates the higher purchase price somewhat.
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I know someone with a Nissan Lavina and calling it a bread-box-on-wheels would be very kind. Anyway that's besides the point.

Even if you're saving 1K a month on fuel an EV is still going to cost a lot more than a fossil fuel polluter.
R250K would buy you a decent family car (non-luxury of course).
The batteries on the Leaf are supposed to last between 5 and 10 years if treated nicely.
So assuming the maximum 10 years battery lifespan: 1K * 120 months = R120K "savings".

That looks favourable until you see how much a replacement battery costs - $18,000 cost price.
Nissan recon that they can halve that once they are mass producing the vehicles so let's say $9000.
Let's assume than Nissan are very kind and sell the replacement battery at cost price and fit it for free (hardly likely).

So now you're looking at R350 000 + R63 000 = R413 000 for the EV over a 10 year period
vs
R250 000 + R120 000 (fuel) = R320 000 for a family sedan over a 10 year period

And of course it's not any better if you drive a lot - the more charge and discharge cycles the battery has the shorter the lifespan.
 
EV car = few moving parts way less and tear. Normal fossil fuel car = lots of moving parts under massive stress which break a lot :)

Personally I do not keep a car for 10 years, I sell it after 2 to 3 years like most people I know.
 
w1z4rd said:
EV car = few moving parts way less and tear. Normal fossil fuel car = lots of moving parts under massive stress which break a lot :)
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I've never driven a car that has needed an engine overhaul or any major mechanical repairs within 10 years or 250 000km and I've driven VW, Mazda and Toyota.

Personally I do not keep a car for 10 years, I sell it after 2 to 3 years like most people I know.
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You obviously have the money to do so and your friends are also in the "upper" class. Good for you. :)
However you're in the minority because the average age of passenger vehicles in South Africa is 10 years (13 years for taxis).
The majority of people in SA will never see the benefit of purchasing and owning EVs unless the base price is the same or lower than a similar fossil fuel powered vehicle.
 
Paul_S said:
I've never driven a car that has needed an engine overhaul or any major mechanical repairs within 10 years or 250 000km and I've driven VW, Mazda and Toyota.
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Lucky you!

You obviously have the money to do so and your friends are also in the "upper" class. Good for you. :)
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Definitely not "upper class" unless you are very low class. More like normal middle class.
 
Brilliant news on the batteries, hope they get something that could be affordable to the SA market soon...but that probably won't happen.

Off topic: I see the marketing gurus have done well in SA. Regardless of financial status or position, I struggle to find a price tag of R 250 000.00 for a "run of the mill" car as acceptable. We are way too eager to part with hard earned money.
 
Great but will never happen as oil companies will do something to stop it...
Isnt i funny how electric cars have been around just as long as combustion engine and yet it hasn't moved forward just look here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car they made electric cars back in 1904? and yet people are like WOW ELECTRIC CARS:wtf:
 
The Joule looks promising, they say its coming out in 2013. Anyone seen one?

http://www.optimalenergy.co.za/why/
Save up to 90% on fuel expenses and 50% on maintenance costs. Comparatively, Joule presents a highly competitive ownership cost, including the lease cost of the battery pack. This cost differential is expected to improve even further as the price of oil continues to rise.
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Jabberwocky said:
The Joule looks promising, they say its coming out in 2013. Anyone seen one?

http://www.optimalenergy.co.za/why/
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The Joule was supposed to be on the show room floors by 2010 (now) and full scale production is/was due in 2012. That date has been shifted to 2013/2014.
It costs R1120 per month just to lease the 230km range battery pack (excluding any taxes our gubbermint will most likely add on top of that to compensate for loss of revenue from sale of fuel).
So in essence if you live close to work it will probably cost you more to operate than a normal vehicle.
 
DOOMIE61 said:
Great but will never happen as oil companies will do something to stop it...
Isnt i funny how electric cars have been around just as long as combustion engine and yet it hasn't moved forward just look here :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car they made electric cars back in 1904? and yet people are like WOW ELECTRIC CARS:wtf:
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I think it has less to do with oil companies, and more to do with battery tech... which has only recently (read "last few years") advanced to a suitable level for transport.
 
Paul_S said:
The Joule was supposed to be on the show room floors by 2010 (now) and full scale production is/was due in 2012. That date has been shifted to 2013/2014.
It costs R1120 per month just to lease the 230km range battery pack (excluding any taxes our gubbermint will most likely add on top of that to compensate for loss of revenue from sale of fuel).
So in essence if you live close to work it will probably cost you more to operate than a normal vehicle.
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R1120 is a bit steep, but it makes sense to lease it. Won`t be surprised if they make the cars cheap, and then make their money on the batteries... like a razor. In an ideal situation we would have standard batteries, so one could buy better batteries from whichever vendor you choose, based on whatever technology is the best when you upgrade.
I commute 160km every day.. so I`m very interested in getting an electric car eventually.
 
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