Excess usage clause (in the AUP)

Maybe we should ask Sentech to translate it into freaky deeky Dutch or something?

You do realise that by signing the contract you are saying "I will pay you (Sentech) x amount (Which you can randomly decide on a not so clear "excessive usage" clause to alter at your discretion) for 2 years"

What happens if you have a system fault and chew up a few gigs in a day (I've done this before) and they decide to charge you R5000 a KB?

Sound like fun? Do you "getz" now?

Whether they monitor this permanently is irrelevant, sudden excessive usage is very obvious to a worthy sysadmin and tracking it back to a certain user is very easy as undoubtedly they (like anyone else) will log all data going in and out of the network.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
 
Karnaugh, i think you are wasting your time and your breath on this crowd, they cleary have no idea how easy it is to monitor each link that comes into Sentech with varyong different averages using freely available tools such as MRTG, let these clowns test the product, let them get burned if it's gonna happen and then we can laugh at them for not taking the advice of the older, wiser more experienced users on this forum.

I have nothing against Sentech, i just have concerns that i bring up that should be valid for anyone thinking of applying to get this service, Karnaugh has pretty much the same view as far as i can see, and we get slated for it, but hey this is South Africa, i'm used to that by now.
 
So, back to agreeing to the AUP on their site: it is quite silly. I went and had a look at their AUP, and saw the following heading: "Improper Use of the Service". I read the paragraph and I am happy to comply with it.

What's that, you say? There's more on that site? Gee, sorry. I didn't see it - must be my current crappy Telkom connection - drops all the time. Sorry - I only agreed to what I saw on their site.

My point is:

There is no way that they can reasonably enforce what is in their AUP on the site, since there is now way they can prove I got all the info. Signing a contract and having initialed each page is the only way to enforce any such terms.

Besides the above, I'd be happy to sign up as a sentech customer, if only they had coverage in the Centurion area. Without proper information, one cannot make sensible decisions. Hence, I have decided to have my leased-line installed to a different end-point so I can get more reliable always-on service. (But that's another long and complicated story..)

--deckert
 
shame leave noone, I really doubt Sentech Will force anyone to do anything. The AUP is there for a worst case senario. Most companies have really hectic AUP's you just don't know it because you aren't aware of it.

..- dot dot dash ;)
 
I agree. Let's look at this from a different perspective, everyone go and read the terms and conditions of your current ISP. You will see that they all contain clauses that imply sole discretion of the ISP. However having said that, how many of you have been contacted by your ISP to say you have violated the terms? It never happens unless someone reports that you have abused those terms.

This is standard practice for every large ISP. Those terms are set out to protect their own backs in a worse case scenario (as freek stated) and not to be thrown in the face of their customers at every opportunity.
 
Perdition, I dunno about that. I've looked at a few ISP's AUP's (most if not all of the first tiers in SA) and I've never seen anything like that. Usualy its bound to the abuse clause in which case they will only take action if the excessive traffic is generated from network abuse, flooding other users etc.

Sorry, some of us just don't have the luxury of just signing something that could potentialy harm us.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
 
Agreed that the clauses I refer to pertain to abuse, however these ISPs state in their AUP's that they retain the right to terminate your service at their discretion (whether you believe you abused the system or not). Sentech have basically classified "excessive usage" as abuse and treating it as such. My point is that they will probably only enforce it in extreme cases.

On the issue of signing something that could potentially harm you, let's look at some other examples of contracts. If you read through the terms and conditions of cell phone contracts you will note that the provider states that they can deny you access to their network at their sole discretion. This is not specifically related to non-payment of service, they leave it very open to interpretation (favouring them of course). Applying for a credit card is the same, the bank basically states they own you and you have no say in the matter if you wish to have a credit card.

At the end of the day the choice is yours, if you don't like the AUP then don't sign up for the service. If you do sign up and Sentech starts militantly enforcing the AUP then just give the modem back and refuse to pay them anymore. In most cases it really isn't worth pursuing the matter in court and they would more than likely just terminate your service.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">however these ISPs state in their AUP's that they retain the right to terminate your service at their discretion (whether you believe you abused the system or not). <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

This is not a matter of service being terminated. Sentech clearly states that they may CHARGE YOU MORE.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
<b>Excess Utilization of Network Resources.</b>

The excessive use or abuse of Sentech's network resources by one customer may have a negative impact on all other customers. Accordingly, you may not use the Service or take any action that will result in excessive consumption or utilization of the system or network resources, or which may weaken network performance, as determined in Sentech's sole discretion. Such prohibited actions include, but are not limited to: using the Service to host a web server site which attracts excessive traffic at your location, continuously uploading or downloading streaming video or audio, UseNet hosting, or continuous FTP uploading or downloading. <b>In the event that Sentech detects excessive use by you</b>, <b>Sentech may</b> restrict your access to Sentech's network, <b>increase the fees associated with your Service, including upgrading you to a higher class of Service</b>, or terminate your Service. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
This is not a matter of service being terminated. Sentech clearly states that they may CHARGE YOU MORE.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I am almost sure they will not go to the extent of doing this. It is much easier for an administrator to "restrict" access to users than go through all the trouble to pass this on to the accounts department who has to verify this and change debit order amounts.

If not they might as well pack up their base stations. In this case a program (e.g. virus) that use large amounts of traffic has the same effect as forgetting your ISDN line connected. What is the point of having a "fix rate" connection if the rate is not fixed?
 
This has nothing to do with whether they "might" or "might not" do this. I have a strong feeling that it would be dangerous for anyone sign that AUP [:(!]. You are basicly trusting your finance to Sentech as they can alter your rates at any time they feel like it, and with respect to the 24 month contract you would be bound to pay it.

Whether they do or don't monitor this currently and whether they will or won't use it is simply speculation. As mithrandi said, there is little chance they specificly wrote the clause unless there was a reason for it.

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
 
You didn't notice I was drunk?

Anyway, agreed with both parties, it COULD be a potentially worrying problem, but like I said, I didn't intial the AUP which means to me, it's "rough guidelines" and not an enforceable entity. If it WAS this big a problem (for them) they would make sure YOU sign the AUP.

Fine, they have it on their website, tommorrow they decide to change the AUP to read "you are all ****ed now, pay us one million dollars or die!"... which, according to 9.5 on the contract I signed, I agreed to when I signed it.

I just think it's ridiculous if they expect me to believe they can do whatever the hell they want because it was stated in the AUP.

On the matter of forcing you to upgrade to another package... they may force you yes, but if you do not WANT to, terminate the service... I'm pretty sure that you'd be ****ed... but hell, it's your choice now isn't it? [:D] Besides, I don't think they have free reign over the debit order, beware their souls if they decide to change ANY kind of pricing before notifying me first. I'll have my lawyers tear their flesh apart before they can say "monopoly"

So like I said, chill.... if anyone is going to be burnt first, it would be me, so I'll post on how *** the service is as soon as I have it [:p]
 
It look like we not the only people so concerned about the concept of an AUP. Judging by the latest newsletter I recieved from Level421 (a german sat provider) its a cause for concern internationally, and YES, the international providers are implementing their threats.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Dear 2-way satellite customer,

unfortunatelly some 2-way satellite providers try to sell their 2-way internet services as "FLAT RATES". Indeed there is no real Flat Rate Internet service existing in the market and this has got a very simple reason: Satellite capacity is expensive and for sure never will be available "UNLIMITED".

Please take care that your provider explains you in detail what he means by "Fair Access Policy" (FAP). When choosing for FAP billing policy, you simply accept that the Internet Satellite provider is allowed to reduce the bandwith if he thinks that your link is overconsuming in terms of volume, speed or number of connected computers. Unfortunatelly most providers do not publishing detailed informations what the exact FAP limits are and some providers even handle it flexible from month to month. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

<i>Them speaks good english over there [^]</i>

The rest of the E-mail was basically a sales pitch about their product, and how u could avoid such problems by signing with them.

But it does imply that this is a current trend with providers, so what stops Sentech from clamping our balls in 6 months?? .......
oh yeah, they respect their valuable customers[}:)]
 
doris,

<i>But it does imply that this is a current trend with providers, so what stops Sentech from clamping our balls in 6 months?? .......</i>

Agreed. Theoretically, one can move about 35GB of data per month on a 128k line/connection. I seriously doubt that I will ever use that much, but from time-to-time I might exceed 7GB when I'm getting the latest ISO set of Fedora or Gentoo. Most probably I will stay under 5GB per month. Heck, I hardly do a GB per month currently.

Now, Sentech, is 5GB too much? Can I surge to 10GB for one month and go down to 3GB again for the other months? Will I get cut off if, during my holidays, I suck down 15GB?

I can understand that Sentech is using their "no cap" to tout as an advantage over Telkom who is capping at 3GB. But where is the limit? Now we'll all stay below 3GB out of fear that Sentech might bring terrible hammer of disconnection down uppon us... :-)

--deckert
 
Probably find Sentech just copy pasted their AUP from someone else :P

<hr noshade size="1">
"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research
 
Like Deckert said, I doubt I'd use that much unless I'm downloading the newest Paris Hilton porn video [:p]

The only reason why I'd like to have a wireless connection is because it's roaming (to a certain extent now) and that if I wanted to surf to a website, not wait forever for the freaking thing to load up

that and if i fancy to play games all night long or i'm bored on my holidays, I am connected during the day without worrying about how much my phonebill would be (or that i am reaching my cap or something)

lets see how things progress, like I stated in previous posts, I'm willing to grow with this company
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Probably find Sentech just copy pasted their AUP from someone else :P<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This is supported by the clause they had up in the initial posting of the contract where there was something to the effect of :

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Blah blah (We need to find out the correct authority to list here) (JOHN TO COMMENT)<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

or something like that.

mithrandi
 
I'm probably going to be a useful test case re 'excessive usage, as I've had the service for a couple of days and I've pulled over 2 gigs already (Unlike the serious w*rezpuppies though, I dont just grab everything online, I'm fairly selective). Still, by sunday or monday sometime I'll probably hit the ahem ADSL users cap of 3 gig limit, and be in unchartered territory.
For now though Im giving Sentech the benefit of the doubt (well jeez, I have to, as I'm stuck with it) But should any nasty things come at me, either in upping the price or capping, I'll keep you posted -

for now though, an analogy for the service is much like buying a new PC. Either you get one, knowing its already outdated, and that someone 3 months down the line is gonna buy a much better and cheaper one, and you just dive in and use the new PC - or else you forever sit and wait and watch on the sidelines until 'the perfect PC/perfect deal/perfect price emerges.. And even then, its never going to be what you want..
Same with Sentech.. yeah the price is heavy, yeah the contract sucks, but yeah I'm online with it NOW. Most companies - ADSL included - have insane contracts - (as I recall ADSL doesnt guarantee service)

Hopefully Sentech will behave themselves and not turn into The Exorcist with the contract - if they do, my lawyers and their lawyers can fight it out. (Like in the Mafia flix, strictly business, nothing personal - and its hardly getting 'burned').

In the meantime, either you sit on the sidelines and wait for 'the better deal' - or you dive in and participate, and if something turns out to suck badly, fight to make it better, or if that fails - fight to kill it and then walk away. *shrug*.

I'm with noone in terms of being willing to grow with this company (and of course, like a good social activist consumer, kick their *ss if they step out of line :)

Re concerns of privacy - there basically isnt any privacy on the Internet to start with (okay yeah there are toolz one uses and encryption techniques etc etc) so using absence of privacy as a reason for being wary of sentech, doesnt wash. Ditto the spam worries. Every time you deposit in local banks they try and get your phone number, even if you're depositing cash - these numbers get sold around for spam purposes. (Note the ads on TV asking for your fone number so you can 'be alerted to activity in your account' - welcome to convenience-disguised data mining in action..)

Anyway - had to put my two cents (2326661676 Zim Dollars) worth in :)
 
I agree, you will be sitting on the sidelines forever waiting for the perfect package and it will be a long time before broadband pricing in SA is more in line with global trends.

As for Sentech imposing the "excessive usage" clause, I think that will only come into play once there are a lot more people on the network.
 
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by freeek</i>
<font color="blue"><font size="2"><i>I agree, it's almost like waiting for the perfect women! You will wait forever!!!</i></font id="size2"></font id="blue"><hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

True enough, but ................[:I][:I]

With sentech / telkom - it's just an arranged marriage [xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]
 
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