Expense row: Brown says sorry

[semiautomatix]

British Prime Minister Gordon Brown says lawmakers are sorry for their excessive expense claims.

Brown says he wants to change the system of auditing expenses and revise rules on lawmakers' allowances.

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2514501,00.html

And that is how it is done in democracies where the government is accountable to the people. Investigations are done, irregularities exposed and made public, apologies given and changes implemented to the system to prevent future abuse.

This country, however, just sweeps it under the rug with a massive broom. Think Travelgate.

 

[RetroBok]

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2514501,00.html

And that is how it is done in democracies where the government is accountable to the people. Investigations are done, irregularities exposed and made public, apologies given and changes implemented to the system to prevent future abuse.

This country, however, just sweeps it under the rug with a massive broom. Think Travelgate.

Yup, however watch this spot... MP's in England have the right to vote themselves pay increases. I'm sure their salaries will increase to cover the shortfall in their expenses.

 

[semiautomatix]

Yup, however watch this spot... MP's in England have the right to vote themselves pay increases. I'm sure their salaries will increase to cover the shortfall in their expenses.

Unfortunately that is a debate for another thread, but that is British law for you. I just happens to be legal, wonder why the ANC hasn't followed suite?

 

[RetroBok]

Unfortunately that is a debate for another thread, but that is British law for you. I just happens to be legal, wonder why the ANC hasn't followed suite?

Give them time, give them time, they're slow learners, however with this criticism must come a compliment... I'd like to congratulate the governing party for perfecting the art of gravy slurping, you are indeed one of the best in the world. If I had a trophy in my cabinet I would give it to you

 

[zippy]

According to current polls, Labour is heading for a defeat at the next election which will see the Tories win by a margin even bigger than Blair's first election win. However, the papers today have now started to list the Tory MP's who have taken liberties with their expense claims. Even the Lib Dems have been bad boys.

The difference between this and Travelgate is that in the Travelgate business they broke the law. The UK MP expenses rules are so lax, that nobody has actually broken any laws. Yet.

The best one yet, is the cabinet minister who claimed for her hubbies porno flicks. lol. And then of course John Prescott claimed for 2 broken toilet seats. haha

 

[semiautomatix]

According to current polls, Labour is heading for a defeat at the next election which will see the Tories win by a margin even bigger than Blair's first election win. However, the papers today have now started to list the Tory MP's who have taken liberties with their expense claims. Even the Lib Dems have been bad boys.

The difference between this and Travelgate is that in the Travelgate business they broke the law. The UK MP expenses rules are so lax, that nobody has actually broken any laws. Yet.

The best one yet, is the cabinet minister who claimed for her hubbies porno flicks. lol. And then of course John Prescott claimed for 2 broken toilet seats. haha

Indeed. And still Gordon Brown was more apologetic and reactive than the ANC were to Travelgate - but when you have accountability to voters you will take action to ensure you don't lose votes.

 

[RetroBok]

The problem is however that it's a never ending bleeding circle... Brown et al will lose voters and more than likely the next general election. The Conservatives will then pick up where Labour left off, they take great joy in raping the voters in turn... Soon people will start voting for neither and then we may even get the likes of the BNP, Green Party, Liberal Democrats, and the Monster Raving Loon Party representing the majority of the UK population

 

[semiautomatix]

The problem is however that it's a never ending bleeding circle... Brown et al will lose voters and more than likely the next general election. The Conservatives will then pick up where Labour left off, they take great joy in raping the voters in turn... Soon people will start voting for neither and then we may even get the likes of the BNP, Green Party, Liberal Democrats, and the Monster Raving Loon Party representing the majority of the UK population

Well UK politics is definitely more mature than SA politics. There is no reason why the Conservative party cannot effectively run the country.

If we take an example of the Democractic Party in the US; they have gone full circle in the last 100 years and have become a very different party from their predecessors.

With changing times different approaches are required. This is no longer the "Thatcher 80s", things have changed and it waits to be seen if the Torys have moved with the times.

 

[noxibox]

Only difference, if there even is one, is that after getting caught stealing they said sorry and made a promise to implement changes. Thankfully they're totally honest and follow through with their promises. They do do that, don't they? They'll be paying back the money naturally. They will, right? No-one going to jail? Very convenient that there are no laws in place to break.

Overall is switching back to the so-called Conservatives going to be much different to the current so-called Labour party?

The UK MP expenses rules are so lax, that nobody has actually broken any laws.

Like I've said crooked politicians (sorry, that's really a tautology) in countries like the UK are more experienced at stealing. Why break the law when you can just make sure there is no law to stop you?

 

[Sly21C]

And that is how it is done in democracies where the government is accountable to the people. Investigations are done, irregularities exposed and made public, apologies given and changes implemented to the system to prevent future abuse.

This country, however, just sweeps it under the rug with a massive broom. Think Travelgate.

Agreed, that is why I didn't want the ANC to win with a two-thirds majority during the past elections because too much power corrupts, and the two-thirds majority they already had during the past 5 years made them arrogant and had the mentality that they can do whatever they want with SA and its institutions. Hopefully having lost the two-thirds will discourage them a bit to respect the rule of law.

 

[JungleBoy]

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2514501,00.html

And that is how it is done in democracies where the government is accountable to the people. Investigations are done, irregularities exposed and made public, apologies given and changes implemented to the system to prevent future abuse.

This country, however, just sweeps it under the rug with a massive broom. Think Travelgate.

Didn't the Travelgate MP plead guilty ? How is that different to the UK MP's saying I'm sorry?
Clearly the Travelgate was not swept under the rug, or am I missing some info on this?

 

[Sly21C]

Didn't the Travelgate MP plead guilty ? How is that different to the UK MP's saying I'm sorry?
Clearly the Travelgate was not swept under the rug, or am I missing some info on this?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but yes the MPs pleaded guilty, but they didn't pay the amount of money owed by them, instead they changed some legislation or something so in a way they got away with my money, and your money, tax payers' money. I didn't follow that story very closely so I stand to be corrected.

 

[JungleBoy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but yes the MPs pleaded guilty, but they didn't pay the amount of money owed by them, instead they changed some legislation or something so in a way they got away with my money, and your money, tax payers' money. I didn't follow that story very closely so I stand to be corrected.

Me neither, but if I remember correctly some form of plea bargain was entered into with the NPA.

here link http://http://www.busrep.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=4895059

Already 31 MPs have agreed plea bargains in the Travelgate case. Charges against four travel agents and one remaining MP - Mnyamezeli Booi, who became ANC chief whip late in 2008 - will continue. Booi declined to admit guilt and his case has been repeatedly delayed. It is now expected to be heard from June 1.

Some MPs had to resign their seats as a result of Travelgate fraud. Others, such as Charles Redcliffe and Antoinette Versveld, both former National Party MPs who ended up in the DA, had already left Parliament by the time they agreed to plead guilty. A protracted case in the regional court prevented both of them from standing in the 2004 election and they faced huge legal bills to fight their cases.

Five ANC MPs who resigned their seats in 2005 argued at the time that they were sacrificial lambs, because they had agreed to enter into a plea bargain with the National Prosecuting Authority, admitting to the abuse of travel vouchers. They had believed they would keep their seats, but were pressured to resign by none other than Mbulelo Goniwe, who was later fired as chief whip for other reasons. Ruth Bhengu, who now appears high up on the ANC election list, was one of the five. The others were Mildred Mpaka, Pamela Mnandi, Rhoda Joemat and Mavis Magazi.

Then in 2007 Craig Morkel joined the ANC during the floor-crossing window. Morkel, who was found guilty of travel voucher fraud, was welcomed into the party by then national chairman - and now Cope president - Mosiuoa Lekota.

Morkel started off as a member of the New National Party before joining the DA. He then defected to form the Progressive Independent Movement, from which he in turn defected to the ANC.

He remains an ANC MP but is not on the 2009 election lists.

One assumes that has nothing to do with a sudden twinge of conscience in the ruling party over Travelgate.

 

[Sly21C]

DA MPs were also implicated? I didn't know that......