F1 2012 thread

Not the Brawn/Byrne straw again. . .

Easy way to solves this; Go look at what JJ Lehto, Jos Verstappen, Johnny Herbert, Eddie Irvine and Rubens Barrichello done in Brawn/Byrne cars and get back to us.

Adrian Newey is a genius, no? Why is Vettel on course to win his third successive driver's world championship in a Newey car and Webber has yet to win one? Some drivers are better than others. MUCH better.

Uhm no everyone knows that Michael got his team to make his team-mates cars slower. Herbert, Verstappen or Irvine went on record saying that. Red-Bull is doing the same to Webber. Duhh.....
 
Yeah. But 80% of it was him. Credit where credit is due.

Not the Brawn/Byrne straw again. . .

Easy way to solves this; Go look at what JJ Lehto, Jos Verstappen, Johnny Herbert, Eddie Irvine and Rubens Barrichello done in Brawn/Byrne cars and get back to us.

Adrian Newey is a genius, no? Why is Vettel on course to win his third successive driver's world championship in a Newey car and Webber has yet to win one? Some drivers are better than others. MUCH better.

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that Michael is a better driver than...
JJ Lehto
Jos Verstappen
Johnny Herbert
Eddie Irvine
Rubens Barrichello
Mark Webber

Yep, we're on the same page there. So here's a question for you...

How many championships in the past 20 years have been won in a car not designed by Newey or Byrne?

1992 - Newey
1993 - Newey
1994 - Newey
1995 - Byrne
1996 - Newey
1997 - Newey
1998 - Newey
1999 - Byrne
2000 - Byrne
2001 - Byrne
2002 - Byrne
2003 - Byrne
2004 - Byrne
2005 - ?Renault
2006 - ?Renault
2007 - ?Ferrari
2008 - ?Ferrari
2009 - Brawn
2010 - Newey
2011 - Newey
2012 - ?

Credit where credit is due... Seriously guys, vehicle designers and the car are a little more than 20% of an F1 win. I'm sure Michael's poor performance of late is down to a little more than his age.
 
Uhm no everyone knows that Michael got his team to make his team-mates cars slower. Herbert, Verstappen or Irvine went on record saying that. Red-Bull is doing the same to Webber. Duhh.....

None of Michael's team mates won a WC ever. He never raced alongside Hakkinen, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton, Vettel, Button.
 
Come alonso!!!!!!!!!! pull your shyte together and stop driving for points, get aggressive bro.

I think the DNF's had more to do with it than merely driving for points. That said, Ferrari are the ones who need to get their shyte together and give him a car to match the Bulls. They are long overdue for a working upgrade.
 
I think the DNF's had more to do with it than merely driving for points. That said, Ferrari are the ones who need to get their shyte together and give him a car to match the Bulls. They are long overdue for a working upgrade.

No doubt but i just got the sense in both corners alonso was trying not to get involved in an incident, almost like he knew all he had to do was finish and he would be world champion, now he must attack because driving chilled trying to avoid incidents has been failing haha.

He must go in and attack the corner and get into the mix.
 
No doubt but i just got the sense in both corners alonso was trying not to get involved in an incident, almost like he knew all he had to do was finish and he would be world champion, now he must attack because driving chilled trying to avoid incidents has been failing haha.

He must go in and attack the corner and get into the mix.

You just 'got the sense'? like... Spidey sense or something? You mean Alonso is like a *** magnet? The more he tries to avoid an incident, the more it comes looking for him? Hehehe.
Qualifying pole goes a long way to avoiding stuff like that. You just increase the odds of surviving the first corner. I guess sometimes you do approach things differently if you attack, but I don't think it decreases your odds of an incident. Women have fewer accidents than men on the road because of their mostly natural tendency to defensive driving... though they do tend to win fewer grands prix. :p
 
All i am saying is he must drive like the alonso we saw, the one who would go from 7th to 2nd at the start, this new alonso that is driving to finish the race is not working. Drive to win it and he won't get hit or he might but either way i would rather get taken out trying to attack over getting taken out trying to bring the car home in 3rd or 4th.

We will see soon enough :D. Alonso does not have the car to get pole at the moment.
 
All i am saying is he must drive like the alonso we saw, the one who would go from 7th to 2nd at the start, this new alonso that is driving to finish the race is not working. Drive to win it and he won't get hit or he might but either way i would rather get taken out trying to attack over getting taken out trying to bring the car home in 3rd or 4th.

We will see soon enough :D. Alonso does not have the car to get pole at the moment.

I guess defensive driving in a race might not equate to defensive driving on the road. Ferrari need to get their stuff sorted. They did say this race will be a big upgrade, so we'll see...
 
I guess defensive driving in a race might not equate to defensive driving on the road. Ferrari need to get their stuff sorted. They did say this race will be a big upgrade, so we'll see...

Ummm ya hahaha, we want that aggressive alonso back, bullet off the line, going wheel to wheel with cars for position in the first few corners. The time has come to go back to basics and stop looking at the points.

I want him to win the title so i hope their upgrades are good.
 
Ummm ya hahaha, we want that aggressive alonso back, bullet off the line, going wheel to wheel with cars for position in the first few corners. The time has come to go back to basics and stop looking at the points.

I want him to win the title so i hope their upgrades are good.

I personally just LOVE the competitiveness in the sport at the moment. Its too close to call and on some tracks Ferrari will run away with it and then next week Red Bull will or even McClaren. I think the cars are just setup totally different to suit a certain track. Example many high speed straights or many curves and less high speed straights. I myself don't know what I'm typing, but hope it makes sense
 
I personally think Red Bull have found something big and are going to be untouchable again.
Their weakness to date has been top speed, running on under the powered Renault engines. It seems they have sorted that, and now they are way ahead, since they are pretty good with downforce.

Ferrari tested theirs at Suzuka but didn't race it. I think it upsets the balance when deactivated. Alonso hinted at an upgrade for this race, so we'll see if they get it right. Renault have been testing this for ages and haven't been able to settle the balance.

Vettel hasn't just suddenly figured out how to drive again, he has been given the fastest car again ;)

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/10/red-bull-double-drs-revealed-in-suzuka/
Posted on October 7, 2012
It’s not often that an innovation on an F1 car slips through without being noticed at a Grand Prix, but the talk of the Japanese Grand Prix was the double DRS device on the rear wing of the Red Bull, which had actually been on the car in Singapore.

The idea is a simple variation on something tried by Lotus this year, to shed even more drag than a standard DRS wing.

Lotus have a passive system and are yet to be able to qualify and race with theirs as they have problems getting the aero rebalanced once the device is deactivated.

The Red Bull idea works more like the Mercedes F Duct front wing; when the DRS is activated it opens a hole (where the narrow, curved grey piece is on the inside of the endplate) to channel air through the rear wing endplate and out through the main beam of the wing (the lower part), shedding drag. It also exits onto the diffuser, helping with rear balance. It helps with top speed and speed through fast corners. In Suzuka Red Bull were in the top ten through the speed trap, only 1km/h slower than Button’s McLaren.

At Spa, in contrast, the Red Bulls were 21st and last in top speed at the end of the Kemmel Straight, 6km/h down on the McLaren.

Like Lotus, Red Bull needed help with qualifying; their chances in races were being harmed by not qualifying at the front of the grid. The DRS device can be used in qualifying, but not in the race (except for overtaking) and on a track like Suzuka, where there are many higher speed corners, there’s a good gain to be had.

So in Suzuka this device came into its own, helping to give Red Bull their first front row lock out of the season and setting Sebastian Vettel up for a momentous win, that blows the world championship wide open with only four points separating him from Fernando Alonso with five races remaining.

Red Bull also had a new front wing in Suzuka, which appeared to have been evolved to be sure to pass the more stringent FIA flexing tests, which were introduced to address rumoured rotation of the front wing.

Red Bull also had some updates to the rear suspension which helped to improve traction and rear tyre life. It was very noticeable from the audio on the on-board camera shots of Vettel’s pole lap that there was almost no wheelspin out of the lower speed corners.

The team has a tremendous momentum now and must be considered the favourites for the championship as the car is coming good at just the right moment, especially as Ferrari seems to be struggling to make updates work on its car.
 
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Mystery "thud" saved Hamilton in Japanese Grand Prix http://motoring.iafrica.com/formulaone/820471.html His suspension must have 'bumped' into place.

I can see mclaren adding a thud to their simulator, it's under steering guys. K wait for the thud bud. Hamilton o hells yea sorted thanx guys.

Thud FTW, the most advanced f1 car fixed by a thud.

How many crazy moves has hamilton made? Yet he was worried about perez. So easy to over take hamilton, act crazy and he will let you go by. Perez got unlucky and admitted his mistake :D

Hamilton better get used to perez over taking him :D.
 
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Uhm no everyone knows that Michael got his team to make his team-mates cars slower. Herbert, Verstappen or Irvine went on record saying that. Red-Bull is doing the same to Webber. Duhh.....

Faceplam/

Here's something for you; In 1999 Michael broke his leg at Silverstone and was out for a fair few months. In that time Ferrari, up until that point McLaren's equal, steadily started falling off of McLaren's pace. Michael returns in Malaysia and takes pole position, nearly a full second faster than Eddie Irvine. On lap 4 Michael allowed Irvine to pass. After the pit-stops were completed and after his quicker race pace saw him end up in front of Irvine again, he once again let Irvine past and spent the remainder of the race riding shotgun as Hakkinen literally exhausted himself trying to get by.

At the final race of the season in Japan - a track Irvine was familiar with, coming from Japanese Formula 3000 and having made his debut there - Irvine only needed to finish ahead of Hakkinen. Result? 5th on the grid, one-and-a-half seconds slower than Michael and he crossed the line in 3rd, one-and-a-half minutes behind Michael.

Conclusion: In Michael's absence the Ferrari's steadily regressed due to a lack of development. I wonder why? What was missing? Upon his return Michael proceeded to thoroughly thrash Irvine.

How about looking at that dog of an F1 car Ferrari used in 2005? Compare Michael to Barrichello in that season. That car was terrible. Michael finished 3rd with 62pts, only finishing 1 race outside of the points. Barrichello picked up 38 pts, finish outside the points on 9 occasions.

So unless Ferrari purposely sabotaged their season in '99 - in the process ensuring their 20 year drought without a drivers title continued -) and gave Michael a "fast-slow" car - or Barrichello a "slow-slow" car - in 2005, you're talking nonsense.
 
If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting that Michael is a better driver than...
JJ Lehto
Jos Verstappen
Johnny Herbert
Eddie Irvine
Rubens Barrichello
Mark Webber

Yep, we're on the same page there. So here's a question for you...

How many championships in the past 20 years have been won in a car not designed by Newey or Byrne?

1992 - Newey
1993 - Newey
1994 - Newey
1995 - Byrne
1996 - Newey
1997 - Newey
1998 - Newey
1999 - Byrne
2000 - Byrne
2001 - Byrne
2002 - Byrne
2003 - Byrne
2004 - Byrne
2005 - ?Renault
2006 - ?Renault
2007 - ?Ferrari
2008 - ?Ferrari
2009 - Brawn
2010 - Newey
2011 - Newey
2012 - ?

Credit where credit is due... Seriously guys, vehicle designers and the car are a little more than 20% of an F1 win. I'm sure Michael's poor performance of late is down to a little more than his age.

Team Lotus

Colin Chapman

Dominated F1 in the 60s & 70s

Drivers:

Jim Clark
Graham Hill
Stirling Moss (Drove a customer Lotus)
Emerson Fittipaldi
Jochen Rindt
Mario Andretti
Carlos Reutemann

So, do we know discredit the likes of Jim Clark & Graham Hill because Champan was doing his thang?

Sorry, a fast driver puts a fast car where it belongs. A great driver will also be invaluable in terms of car development and technical feedback.
 
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