F1 2012 thread

[Aasvoël]

Best race of the season. Its amazing that Vettel trashed the field yet people still find thing to nail him on. Dont understand the hate for him. Ferrari a dog? really? Webber couldn't even come back at Alonso or pass Massa. And how many laps did Button struggle to get passed Alonso? All alonso does it to say he has the worst car while on many occasions he had a very good car. The way he's going one could swear his driving a HRT.

 

[vinodh]

As much as I hate the man, Alonso has done wonders this year. I can only imagine what he would do if got a drive at Red Bull.

 

[killadoob]

Nope you are wrong once again, vettel's car was setup for quali which would mean he was going to struggle unless he got away in 1st and broke the 1 second mark.

Getting disqualified he was allowed to change his car meaning he had a perfect car for the race something he would not have had in the race. He would have been easy meat for alonso. Although i doubt you even knew about that.

We never saw how many people he overtook because we didn't watch him the entire race but you can imagine how many he had to pass landing up at the back of the field twice.

The last safety car didn't really do much to help him. If anything the first safety car was bad for him, he was right up there in 12th or 13th and then he had the incident and had to pit, sending him to the back of the field. Did you watch the race?

Pass of the day was vettel on button. We can perhaps refer to alonso when he had a winning car with hamilton and he didn't win it. So is hamilton better than alonso?

 

[JerryMungo]

Best race of the season.

For sure!

Its amazing that Vettel trashed the field

Name the field he trashed please

yet people still find thing to nail him on. Dont understand the hate for him.

I wouldn't call it hate for Vettel.

Ferrari a dog? really? Webber couldn't even come back at Alonso or pass Massa.

And Vettel would have languished behind Webber for some time - at least that's what Red Bull themselves thought

And how many laps did Button struggle to get passed Alonso?

Yeah, Alonso did brilliantly with what he had, but there's no doubt right through the weekend that Button had a dog of a car too. He was quoted as being puzzled with his pace compared to Lewis

All alonso does it to say he has the worst car while on many occasions he had a very good car. The way he's going one could swear his driving a HRT.

Did he? Regardless if he did or not, I can't see how anyone who follows racing can argue that Alonso is an inferior driver.

 

[killadoob]

No one is saying he is inferior but he certainly isn't better than hamilton and vettel.

Hamilton proved who was the boss, i think vettel changed my mind today, vettel decimated the entire field today and he did it from last position, twice he was last yet he could have caught alonso if there had been more laps.

Sorry but that ferrari is not a dog. Vettel is just pure genius behind the wheel. Hamilton given the car is just as good. alonso is great but vettel showed today why he is chasing his third straight championship.

Redbull also made some outstanding calls, team work helped vettel. His team backed up his legendary drive with great calls.

 

[JerryMungo]

Nope you are wrong once again, vettel's car was setup for quali which would mean he was going to struggle unless he got away in 1st and broke the 1 second mark.

Are you talking about the brake issues where he only had 3 minutes to run in FP 3?

Getting disqualified he was allowed to change his car meaning he had a perfect car for the race something he would not have had in the race. He would have been easy meat for alonso. Although i doubt you even knew about that.

I wouldn't call it easy meat, but ja, Alonso would IMO have taken him had they not been able to fiddle with the gear ratios, etc.

We never saw how many people he overtook because we didn't watch him the entire race but you can imagine how many he had to pass landing up at the back of the field twice.

It's googleable. Besides, just take the DNFs and the two ahead of him and you have your answer.

The last safety car didn't really do much to help him. If anything the first safety car was bad for him, he was right up there in 12th or 13th and then he had the incident and had to pit, sending him to the back of the field. Did you watch the race?

The last safety car didn't do much for him because he couldn't get past anyone other than Button. Regardless it was the best shot he had.

Pass of the day was vettel on button. We can perhaps refer to alonso when he had a winning car with hamilton and he didn't win it. So is hamilton better than alonso?

Unless there's a big difference - Webber/Vettel, Kovi/Hamilton, Schumi/Irvine, we don't have a hope of saying one driver is better than another. Also, there is better over a career, or better over a season, or better performance in a race. I'd put Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton in a league of their own, but all three need a car to match their skill to win.

 

[JerryMungo]

No one is saying he is inferior but he certainly isn't better than hamilton and vettel.

Hamilton proved who was the boss, i think vettel changed my mind today, vettel decimated the entire field today and he did it from last position, twice he was last yet he could have caught alonso if there had been more laps.

Sorry but that ferrari is not a dog. Vettel is just pure genius behind the wheel. Hamilton given the car is just as good. alonso is great but vettel showed today why he is chasing his third straight championship.

Redbull also made some outstanding calls, team work helped vettel. His team backed up his legendary drive with great calls.

Well you're not going to change my mind that Hamilton and Alonso could have done the same under the same circumstances in that Bull. They have a pretty clever engineering team at RB and Adrian Newey doesnt get nearly as much credit as he deserves for their success. F1 has always and always will be a team sport.

 

[vinodh]

No one is saying he is inferior but he certainly isn't better than hamilton and vettel.

Hamilton proved who was the boss, i think vettel changed my mind today, vettel decimated the entire field today and he did it from last position, twice he was last yet he could have caught alonso if there had been more laps.

Sorry but that ferrari is not a dog. Vettel is just pure genius behind the wheel. Hamilton given the car is just as good. alonso is great but vettel showed today why he is chasing his third straight championship.

Redbull also made some outstanding calls, team work helped vettel. His team backed up his legendary drive with great calls.

Vettel's drive was great to watch, listening to him scream like a girl when he misjudged the gap between him and the Toro Rosso in front was pure entertainment but calling his drive legendary is taking it a bit too far. Senna's drive at Donington Park was legendary. Buttons drive at Canada last year was even better than Vettel's but I don't recall people calling it legend...wait for it...dary.

 

[JerryMungo]

Vettel's drive was great to watch, listening to him scream like a girl when he misjudged the gap between him and the Toro Rosso in front was pure entertainment

but calling his drive legendary is taking it a bit too far. Senna's drive at Donington Park was legendary. Buttons drive at Canada last year was even better than Vettel's but I don't recall poeple calling it legend...wait for it...dary.

Poepalle?
JK killa

 

[JerryMungo]

 

[vinodh]

Poepalle?
JK killa

Clearly a case of brain being faster than fingers...

 

[Aasvoël]

No I didnt say Alonso cant drive a car, he has proven he can, but he and his fans make is sound like he is driving a car that's much slower than his competitors. In quite a few races this year he has had a very good car, better than RB is some cases, and then there's is his and Hamilton's constant comments on how its all Newey. :/

 

[vinodh]

I think what makes Alonso look really awesome is Massa tooling around in the back. Since Ferrari gave him a 2013 drive, Massa has picked up some pace but he's generally been looking for parking most of the year. Massa would have competed with Schumacher for the title of "has been" of the year but he was excluded from that competition because he had already won the title for "never was".

 

[killadoob]

Well you're not going to change my mind that Hamilton and Alonso could have done the same under the same circumstances in that Bull. They have a pretty clever engineering team at RB and Adrian Newey doesnt get nearly as much credit as he deserves for their success. F1 has always and always will be a team sport.

Alonso did do something similar this season, do you recall him winning a race, do you recall the position he started? Do you recall when redbull could barely get 4th or 5th in quali or is that forgotten?

I must be honest talking to people who either don't watch the full race or have a poor memory is rather tiring. When alonso won that was drive of the season for me but today vettel's drive was better.

While i agree f1 is a team sport, without a driver the team will fail. Ferrari would be useless without alonso and so would mclaren without hamilton. So you are basically saying the only reason hamilton has 6 poles is because he had a good car and the reason alonso is in the hunt for the championship is his car, the reason vettel is leading the championship is his car.

So the drivers really mean nothing, it's all about the car? Hmmm seems a bit odd, to me i think vettel, alonso and hamilton make the cars look good but each to their own. When Maldonado beat alonso it was purely the car and nothing to do with him out driving a world champion.

What a joke dude.

 

[JerryMungo]

Killa, you make my day
You and me are the same

 

[JerryMungo]

Alonso did do something similar this season, do you recall him winning a race, do you recall the position he started?

That's not the same. Vettel didn't win.
So here's the field that Seb decimated today:

4 Jenson Button McLaren
5 Pastor Maldonado Williams
6 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber
7 Felipe Massa Ferrari
8 Bruno Senna Williams
9 Paul di Resta Force India
10 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso
11 Michael Schumacher Mercedes
12 Jean-Éric Vergne Toro Rosso
13 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham
14 Timo Glock Marussia
15 Sergio Pérez Sauber
16 Vitaly Petrov Caterham
17 Pedro de la Rosa HRT

A big chunk of those was down to pit-stop timing (which was brilliant).

 

[Aasvoël]

That's not the same. Vettel didn't win.
So here's the field that Seb decimated today:

4 Jenson Button McLaren
5 Pastor Maldonado Williams
6 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber
7 Felipe Massa Ferrari
8 Bruno Senna Williams
9 Paul di Resta Force India
10 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso
11 Michael Schumacher Mercedes
12 Jean-Éric Vergne Toro Rosso
13 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham
14 Timo Glock Marussia
15 Sergio Pérez Sauber
16 Vitaly Petrov Caterham
17 Pedro de la Rosa HRT

A big chunk of those was down to pit-stop timing (which was brilliant).

From 11th on the grid didn't pass any one on track that was much faster except Grosjean, Webber and Schumi were on old tires gifted the win. So yeah cant compare the two

 

[MR.C]

That's not the same. Vettel didn't win.
So here's the field that Seb decimated today:

4 Jenson Button McLaren
5 Pastor Maldonado Williams
6 Kamui Kobayashi Sauber
7 Felipe Massa Ferrari
8 Bruno Senna Williams
9 Paul di Resta Force India
10 Daniel Ricciardo Toro Rosso
11 Michael Schumacher Mercedes
12 Jean-Éric Vergne Toro Rosso
13 Heikki Kovalainen Caterham
14 Timo Glock Marussia
15 Sergio Pérez Sauber
16 Vitaly Petrov Caterham
17 Pedro de la Rosa HRT

A big chunk of those was down to pit-stop timing (which was brilliant).

Brilliant car, brilliant driver and remember that he started from the pit lane so they adjusted whatever they wanted to, they added more wing so that's brilliant changes and setup.

The fact that Alonso doesn't do well in Quali, does that mean he's not good at it or that the car is not good ?
I put it down to a good car and a very good driver even though I'm not an Alonso fan, I consider Alonso and Hamilton to be the best drivers atm. Vettel comes a close second and Kimi one step below.

 

[OzzieCapie]

Vettel must be the luckiest driver ever and Hamilton at moment the unluckiest.

When Vettel's car is fast in qualifying (recent races) then the track lends itself to someone starting in front.

When he starts in the worst position, then saftey cars allow him to get back through. He could have even won last night's race the way it went.
First SC gave him opportunity to change the wing- which became inconsequentially serendipitous becasue it actually allowed him on soft tyres fro lap 12 and be the fastest car in a field that was spread over a small time differential. That ensured that by the time others had to pit, he was again within the time gap that would put them behind him...which works in his favour if he doesn't need to pit again, but lo and behold what happens...another SC

Yeah...greatest driver ever??

 

[JerryMungo]

Vettel must be the luckiest driver ever and Hamilton at moment the unluckiest.

When Vettel's car is fast in qualifying (recent races) then the track lends itself to someone starting in front.

When he starts in the worst position, then saftey cars allow him to get back through. He could have even won last night's race the way it went.
First SC gave him opportunity to change the wing- which became inconsequentially serendipitous becasue it actually allowed him on soft tyres fro lap 12 and be the fastest car in a field that was spread over a small time differential. That ensured that by the time others had to pit, he was again within the time gap that would put them behind him...which works in his favour if he doesn't need to pit again, but lo and behold what happens...another SC

Yeah...greatest driver ever??

The SC makes a pretty big difference these days with DRS. The days of being stuck behind someone are gone, particularly on a track with such a long straight. That said, your car best be setup for higher top speed to make the most of it, something the did differently on Vettel's car in the pits.