F1 2025

Status
Not open for further replies.
Whright said:
Gentlemen, I’m no F1 expert, so can anyone help me out here.

When last did a driver win the drivers championship, with the 3rd / 4th slowest car.

Excluding last season 2024.
Click to expand...

I doubt there has ever been an occasion where a consistently slow car (i.e. third or fourth fastest) throughout the season has gone on to win the championship. At some point, it had to have been fast enough to win races. What we have seen though is a car start off strong and then tail off throughout the championship, either to be pipped at the post, or hang on. And I would say no more so than in 2009 with Brawn and Jenson Button. They shot off like a rat out of an aqueduct but were steadily reeled in to the extent that the soon to be all conquering Red Bulls, Ferrari and McLaren had overtaken them in terms of speed (although not maybe on the leaderboard).

EDIT: Maybe not so much the Ferraris. Looking at the 2009 results, they were scraping the points barrel. Also McLaren for that matter, although their results were slightly better than Ferrari it looks like.
 
In the beginning of last season I already said its not Perez that is so terrible, the car is not that fast and its just Max's skills that keeps getting wins.
But hey a certain crowd will never acknowledge how great Max is.
There is a reason that Toto and every other team boss will give Max any money he ask for and drop any of their current drivers to make place for him.
But hey, I see many are writing Max of already. Lets watch and see.
 
I'm only going to do this once.

Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
In the beginning of last season I already said its not Perez that is so terrible, the car is not that fast and its just Max's skills that keeps getting wins.
Click to expand...
Checo's skills have waned as he's aged (it happens to most drivers), while Max is very talented and probably still improving. The Red Bull is actually poorer than I think most people realize but that is masked by Max's supreme skill.

Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
But hey a certain crowd will never acknowledge how great Max is.
Click to expand...
Everyone knows Max is great, but even a great driver can only do so much against superior machinery.

Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
There is a reason that Toto and every other team boss will give Max any money he ask for and drop any of their current drivers to make place for him.
Click to expand...
Max is a talented driver, hence the 4 World Driver Championships that he currently holds. Any team would welcome a 4 times world champ with wide open arms.

Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
But hey, I see many are writing Max of already. Lets watch and see.
Click to expand...
People are not writing off Max, but rather Red Bull.
People are pessimistic about Red Bull's chances without Adrian Newey's mighty hand. not to mention there seems to be more dramas happening behind the scenes. Max doesn't exactly exude confidence about the upcoming season either.

So yeah, its Red Bull rather than Max that's ruining Max's chances at grabbing the 5th WDC. If Max were at Ferrari, McLaren or Mercedes this year we'd all be backing Max because he'd be in a great car.

Everybody else here in this thread understands this implicitly because we actually watched all the races last season and discussed all the Red Bull developments in detail in the previous thread. And then there was last week's testing too.

 
Last edited:
Decarin said:
I'm only going to do this once.


Checo's skills have waned as he's aged (it happens to most drivers), while Max is very talented and probably still improving. The Red Bull is actually poorer than I think most people realize but that is masked by Max's supreme skill.


Everyone knows Max is great, but even a great driver can only do so much against superior machinery.


Max is a talented driver, hence the 4 World Driver Championships that he currently holds. Any team would welcome a 4 times world champ with wide open arms.


People are not writing off Max, but rather Red Bull.
People are pessimistic about Red Bull's chances without Adrian Newey's mighty hand. not to mention there seems to be more dramas happening behind the scenes. Max doesn't exactly exude confidence about the upcoming season either.

So yeah, its Red Bull rather than Max that's ruining Max's chances at grabbing the 5th WDC.
Click to expand...
Over the years Red Bull did not have to many bad cars, often not the fastest but still not bad. Max does not need the fastest car to win the championship.
Red Bull know if they do not give him a half decent car he will leave. So I don't see how people can write him and Red Bull off before the season even started.
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
Over the years Red Bull did not have to many bad cars, often not the fastest but still not bad. Max does not need the fastest car to win the championship.
Red Bull know if they do not give him a half decent car he will leave. So I don't see how people can write him and Red Bull off before the season even started.
Click to expand...
Red Bull are struggling already, even right at the end of testing. McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes and even Williams had a far smoother time testing their cars. So already Red Bull are off to a poor start. That's not great when the Constructors Championship winner McLaren seems to be off to a flyer already....

Its very possible to come back from that and win the championship at the end, but its a bit like shooting yourself in the foot the night before running the Comrades.
 
Decarin said:
Everybody else here in this thread understands this implicitly because we actually watched all the races last season and discussed all the Red Bull developments in detail in the previous thread. And then there was last week's testing too.
Click to expand...
But do we know it all?

We are yet to see what DTS have to say on the matter and, after all, they are the definitive source of information are they not. :unsure: :laugh:

Melbourne will prove it one way or another, I can't wait - 7 days till first session of 2025 and hopefully the best season of the decade.
This time next week we will know where everyone stands from then on it is who can develop fastest and which driver makes the most of the car he is given.
 
Last edited:
Decarin said:
Red Bull are struggling already, even right at the end of testing. McLaren, Ferrari, Mercedes and even Williams had a far smoother time testing their cars. So already Red Bull are off to a poor start. That's not great when the Constructors Championship winner McLaren seems to be off to a flyer already....

Its very possible to come back from that and win the championship at the end, but its a bit like shooting yourself in the foot the night before running the Comrades.
Click to expand...
Testing is just that, testing.
Sandbagging is a thing. Trying funny setups is a thing. Times in testing means nothing as we have seen over the years.

At the end of the day Mclaren had a very fast car for a while. Then there was outrage about flexible wings and FIA started looking into it and suddenly they were not that fast anymore at the end of the season. This season there will be even more scrutiny on flexi wings. So all this Mclaren is favorite, I will take with a pinch of salt.

Red Bull development went wrong direction, they seem to have noticed that and should be on the right direction.

Ferrari was on an upward curve.

Merc could not sort out there car in 3 years. So why would they suddenly do it now? We heard the same story the start of the season the last 2 years. And yet they were still slow every year.

So for me it will be between Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull. Cars will be closely matched and with that Max will be the difference and best driver to put your money on for the championship.
 
Jean Claude Vaaldamme said:
Testing is just that, testing.
Sandbagging is a thing. Trying funny setups is a thing. Times in testing means nothing as we have seen over the years.

At the end of the day Mclaren had a very fast car for a while. Then there was outrage about flexible wings and FIA started looking into it and suddenly they were not that fast anymore at the end of the season. This season there will be even more scrutiny on flexi wings. So all this Mclaren is favorite, I will take with a pinch of salt.

Red Bull development went wrong direction, they seem to have noticed that and should be on the right direction.

Ferrari was on an upward curve.

Merc could not sort out there car in 3 years. So why would they suddenly do it now? We heard the same story the start of the season the last 2 years. And yet they were still slow every year.

So for me it will be between Ferrari, Mclaren and Red Bull. Cars will be closely matched and with that Max will be the difference and best driver to put your money on for the championship.
Click to expand...
Go see how many YouTubers or journos have predicted Max get a 5th WDC in 2025. You won't find many, if any.

RedBull went from dominating 2023 to dominating then falling down hard in 2024 to only just secure the WDC by the end. Now in 2025 it seems they are already battling before the first race. It didn't set the timing sheets on fire either.

Max is just one man in a team consisting of thousands. If the whole team isn't working harmoniously in getting the car working well how the heck is he going to get it ahead of the competition where entire teams are like well oiled machines?


www.the-race.com

Verstappen doubts Red Bull ready to win at start of 2025

Max Verstappen doubts Red Bull will be able to fight for victory in the Formula 1 season opener, having expected more from its 2025 car in pre-season testing
www.the-race.com www.the-race.com

- Ferrari looks good and energized.
- McLaren is surging with confidence
- Mercedes looks strong and youthful, much like Red Bull did a few years back.
- Williams is surprising everyone including the top team bosses
- While Red Bull looks a bit concerned about their new car, particularly Max himself
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X