Fake qualifications growing problem in Africa

Because a certificate magically confers ability upon the recipient - regardless of the provenance of said certificate?
 
The ANC government doesn't require any qualifications to be authentic, so why should the rest of us bother ?
 
Sinbad said:
Because a certificate magically confers ability upon the recipient - regardless of the provenance of said certificate?
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According to the "ONLY do it by the book" types.:erm:

The reality is far different,I have an uncle who doesn't have anything to his name besides Matric he didn't get an opportunity to study because of his financial situation at that time and he started working at a company as a merchandiser,then went on to be salesperson and worked his way up until the company was in dire straits and about to face retrenchments etc,at that point in time he found a new business model for the company to make money and eventually was made into a director,today the company has grown exponentially and has multiple divisions and all this while the managers and directors around him with many MBA's etc were leading the company down an abyss and could not find a way out of the downward spiral.

Dont get me wrong I'm not saying a degree is not highly valuable,I'm just saying that to exclude a competent person because of no degree is absolute stupidy and reeks of somebody with a degree that needs to justify his piece of paper.

Sure there are some specific skilled positions like Doctors,Pilots,Engineers etc where the degree is important but when it comes up to most positions a degree should not be an obstacle to a competent person to be in that position.
 
Kevin Lancaster said:
Fake qualifications growing problem in Africa

Fraudulent qualifications are a problem on the African continent, the SA Qualifications Authority said on Monday
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The long and the short is that they are too stupid to complete the degree and will never get it. The ANC government agreed to accepting fake degrees for positions for cadres.

Now that this is in the media, the government will probably force all universities to issue degrees to cadres - whether they passed or not or whether they ever done the course or not.
 
According to the "ONLY do it by the book" types.

The reality is far different,I have an uncle who doesn't have anything to his name besides Matric he didn't get an opportunity to study because of his financial situation at that time and he started working at a company as a merchandiser,then went on to be salesperson and worked his way up until the company was in dire straits and about to face retrenchments etc,at that point in time he found a new business model for the company to make money and eventually was made into a director,today the company has grown exponentially and has multiple divisions and all this while the managers and directors around him with many MBA's etc were leading the company down an abyss and could not find a way out of the downward spiral.

Dont get me wrong I'm not saying a degree is not highly valuable,I'm just saying that to exclude a competent person because of no degree is absolute stupidy and reeks of somebody with a degree that needs to justify his piece of paper.

Sure there are some specific skilled positions like Doctors,Pilots,Engineers etc where the degree is important but when it comes up to most positions a degree should not be an obstacle to a competent person to be in that position.
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You're missing the point.
The point I was making was that putting a certificate on your wall saying "MB B Ch" doesn't make you a doctor. It's the years of learning and work and passing exams that makes you a doctor. The certificate just acknowledges and recognises it. If the certificate didn't exist, you'd still be capable of doctoring ;)
 
Sinbad said:
You're missing the point.
The point I was making was that putting a certificate on your wall saying "MB B Ch" doesn't make you a doctor. It's the years of learning and work and passing exams that makes you a doctor. The certificate just acknowledges and recognises it. If the certificate didn't exist, you'd still be capable of doctoring ;)
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I think we are past the point of proving that degrees are necessary for certain positions. Look at the SABC how it was run with all the fake degrees. Look at most government organizations, as well as semi-state organizations, where I also believe that all of them have provided fake degrees.
 
Visser said:
I think we are past the point of proving that degrees are necessary for certain positions. Look at the SABC how it was run with all the fake degrees. Look at most government organizations, as well as semi-state organizations, where I also believe that all of them have provided fake degrees.
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You're also missing my point.
My point is that the ANC seems to believe that saying you have a degree, or buying one, miraculously means you're capable of what the degree says you are.
Much like they want to give out matric certificates merely for attendance :p
 
Good prospects then for companies like Kroll and MIE I think
 
falcon786 said:
According to the "ONLY do it by the book" types.:erm:

The reality is far different,I have an uncle who doesn't have anything to his name besides Matric he didn't get an opportunity to study because of his financial situation at that time and he started working at a company as a merchandiser,then went on to be salesperson and worked his way up until the company was in dire straits and about to face retrenchments etc,at that point in time he found a new business model for the company to make money and eventually was made into a director...
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No arguments there. The business world is full of highly successful individuals who didn't go the degree route. But that's not the issue here, the issue is lying about a degree. I'm sure your uncle never faked a degree to get ahead.
 
Sinbad said:
You're missing the point.
The point I was making was that putting a certificate on your wall saying "MB B Ch" doesn't make you a doctor. It's the years of learning and work and passing exams that makes you a doctor. The certificate just acknowledges and recognises it. If the certificate didn't exist, you'd still be capable of doctoring ;)
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Yes most people actually learn more on the job than what their degree ever taught them,I agree.
 
garp said:
No arguments there. The business world is full of highly successful individuals who didn't go the degree route. But that's not the issue here, the issue is lying about a degree. I'm sure your uncle never faked a degree to get ahead.
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Nope,but then again neither did the SAA CEO but many people have a problem with him running the company simply because he doesn't have a degree.As can be seen from the guys days at Mango he is capable of running the company and did not lie yet some people feel he shouldn't be in that position simply because he doesn't have a degree irrespective of whether he lied or not.

I've hired some people with degrees that are dumber than a field mouse so I don't know why people think a degree is the be all and end all of possible candidates suitable for high positions.
 
Degree or not, I don't care. Track record is what counts IMHO.
But lying about qualifications OR experience is beyond the pale.
 
Visser said:
The long and the short is that they are too stupid to complete the degree and will never get it. The ANC government agreed to accepting fake degrees for positions for cadres.

Now that this is in the media, the government will probably force all universities to issue degrees to cadres - whether they passed or not or whether they ever done the course or not.
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lol, what garbage.
 
falcon786 said:
Nope,but then again neither did the SAA CEO but many people have a problem with him running the company simply because he doesn't have a degree.As can be seen from the guys days at Mango he is capable of running the company and did not lie yet some people feel he shouldn't be in that position simply because he doesn't have a degree irrespective of whether he lied or not.

I've hired some people with degrees that are dumber than a field mouse so I don't know why people think a degree is the be all and end all of possible candidates suitable for high positions.
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I quite agree.

Hypothetical situation: You are tasked with recruiting a new CEO for an airline. Would you:

A: Hire someone who had run a very successful airline for 8 years, but has no degree.
B: Hire someone highly qualified, but with no track record in the industry.

To me it's a no brainer, but it seems there are many here that would rather hire the unproven quantity solely because they believe that not having a degree makes you automatically incapable. The world is changing rapidly, though, and even companies like Google have discovered that this is a fallacy and have de-emphasized pieces of paper in favour of demonstrable skills, knowledge and work ethic.

It is a fallacy that not having a degree automatically means that you are uneducated or stupid. I know of highly educated, intelligent people that did not formally study for their fields, especially in a field like IT where much of what you learn in a formal academic environment is old history by the time you graduate.
 
garp said:
I quite agree.

Hypothetical situation: You are tasked with recruiting a new CEO for an airline. Would you:

A: Hire someone who had run a very successful airline for 8 years, but has no degree.
B: Hire someone highly qualified, but with no track record in the industry.

To me it's a no brainer, but it seems there are many here that would rather hire the unproven quantity solely because they believe that not having a degree makes you automatically incapable. The world is changing rapidly, though, and even companies like Google have discovered that this is a fallacy and have de-emphasized pieces of paper in favour of demonstrable skills, knowledge and work ethic.

It is a fallacy that not having a degree automatically means that you are uneducated or stupid. I know of highly educated, intelligent people that did not formally study for their fields, especially in a field like IT where much of what you learn in a formal academic environment is old history by the time you graduate.
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I agree with hiring the capable person with a proven track record (A in your case).. However, if the option becomes

C) Have hired a guy and you're shown that he blatantly lied on his resume, in order to get the job (his own benefit), then you have to start wondering whether he lied about other things too, and whether he's trustworthy in the position.
 
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