Farm Attacks

Seriously said:
Why everyone ignore the facts that most of the times the violence, torture and killing have nothing to do with "extracting" information. It's committed anyway even before where people was shot in cold blood without warning or any threat and after the attack and the savages got what they came for.
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BrandonH said:
Pretty easily - just look for keys.

And don't tell me the average farmer is going to go all rambo and risk death for a few household items.
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I will say this again just for clarity purposes.

None of you actually stay on a farm or even lived/owned one right?
We have nothing short of 4 safes on the farm. One for each house. In the safes at any given time you will have nothing less than R 50k in the safes combined. Out of the 4 safes 3 are big rifle safes and then walk-in safe with loads of things in there from documents, contracts, fire-arms, money, spare vehicle keys and and and. There I no way I would give up the combinations or keys to anyone attacking us. They won't find it by searching either.

What makes Farm attacks so special then? Why not make a thread about how black people are also being killed or lets call it another genocide when they are high-jacked. For no apparent reason they are shot and killed. Why stop there, why are women and kids of all races raped and killed? Maybe genocide too?

Are you guys even realising what you're saying?

Again, there are farm murders which clearly indicate there was alternative reasons/motives for attacking the farms. But that is only about 1/10 farm attacks. Come on guys, it's not that hard. Think for one second what you're saying in here.
 
etienne_marais said:
So when you have numerous incidents where nothing, and sometimes only a cellphone is stolen, then you would be objective enough to take in the implications ?
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Implications of what? It being racially motivated? Sure. But it's a tiny percentage compared to most of the attacks, even smaller if you had to take national murder/robbery rates into account. An average of 40 people are murdered each day without even a news story, how much did you think they had? What race do you think they were? This tunnel focus on race by certain types creates nothing but misinformation and division, even in cases where the motives are hate crime. Groups and people don't seem to understand this, either on purpose or because of preconceived opinions (as you referred to before).
 
BrandonH said:
Pretty easily - just look for keys.

And don't tell me the average farmer is going to go all rambo and risk death for a few household items.
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Again, you have no idea of what happens on farms. They are not after a TV and a toaster here. They are after the safes with the guns and money in it. Most farmers have their whole life worth of savings in their safes. If they lose that they are finished anyway. Farmers have huge investments in their crops and if those crops fold they need to survive a season or 2 to get back on their feet.
 
Fudzy said:
A baseless claim without any proof.
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In someones eyes with blinkers on and their puny heads stuck in the sand yes. A few days ago there was a thread where two businesses were robbed. Both owners killed in cold blood. The one case is where the butcher were out and when he returned and noticed the robbery he turned around to sneak away and was shot in the back. So no there is no proof at all. There would be no statistical prove as the SAPS and the ANC have stop giving information on specifically farm attack crimes. So the actual surviving victim accounts and reports on sites ignoring the AND ban on information are the only ones giving the real accounts of events and those sites are ignored by most of the idiots trying to make as if these crimes are normal crimes as per "international standards" especially the fuzzy's of this world using their own unique fuzzy logic.
 
Seriously said:
In someones eyes with blinkers on and their puny heads stuck in the sand yes. A few days ago there was a thread where two businesses were robbed. Both owners killed in cold blood. The one case is where the butcher were out and when he returned and noticed the robbery he turned around to sneak away and was shot in the back. So no there is no proof at all. There would be no statistical prove as the SAPS and the ANC have stop giving information on specifically farm attack crimes. So the actual surviving victim accounts and reports on sites ignoring the AND ban on information are the only ones giving the real accounts of events and those sites are ignored by most of the idiots trying to make as if these crimes are normal crimes as per "international standards" especially the fuzzy's of this world using their own unique fuzzy logic.
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You seemed to miss the large amounts of money they were carrying?
 
Fudzy said:
You seemed to miss the large amounts of money they were carrying?
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So again why torture the victims when they got what they wanted. recently after they got what they wanted they took the farmers to the bushes and then killed them. Why?
 
Seriously said:
You are totally fuzzied! that link is to the Pretoria business owners that were murdered in cold blood. So it's OK in your eyes if they were shot in cold blood without any reason as long as they were not tortured. How odd?
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You said that the businessmen were tortured. I showed you a link that verifies they weren't, you then go off on another tangent saying that I think it's okay that they were shot in cold blood without any reason (err...) as long as they weren't tortured?
 
Seriously said:
So again why torture the victims when they got what they wanted. recently after they got what they wanted they took the farmers to the bushes and then killed them. Why?
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How do they get what they want?

That is the point here you all keep missing. Let's assume for a second the farm is 50kms from the bank. You sold 30 heads of cattle and only go to the bank once a month. Let's not over price them let's say at R 6k per head. R 180k for one day. That R 180k will be in the safe till you go to the bank again when ever. Normally one day a month is set aside for admin thingies. Shopping, banking, and what not. If they come to rob you, they will not leave without getting into that safe. And they will get into that safe any way they can. Simple as that. Hardly anyone in urban areas will have R 180k in their safe. Home robberies in urban areas are for the vehicles and electronic goods. They have no need to torture you.
 
Fudzy said:
You said that the businessmen were tortured. I showed you a link that verifies they weren't, you then go off on another tangent saying that I think it's okay that they were shot in cold blood without any reason (err...) as long as they weren't tortured?
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Where did I say they were tortured? Read again and comprehend for a change.
 
Pitbull said:
I will say this again just for clarity purposes.

None of you actually stay on a farm or even lived/owned one right?
We have nothing short of 4 safes on the farm. One for each house. In the safes at any given time you will have nothing less than R 50k in the safes combined. Out of the 4 safes 3 are big rifle safes and then walk-in safe with loads of things in there from documents, contracts, fire-arms, money, spare vehicle keys and and and. There I no way I would give up the combinations or keys to anyone attacking us. They won't find it by searching either.

What makes Farm attacks so special then? Why not make a thread about how black people are also being killed or lets call it another genocide when they are high-jacked. For no apparent reason they are shot and killed. Why stop there, why are women and kids of all races raped and killed? Maybe genocide too?

Are you guys even realising what you're saying?

Again, there are farm murders which clearly indicate there was alternative reasons/motives for attacking the farms. But that is only about 1/10 farm attacks. Come on guys, it's not that hard. Think for one second what you're saying in here.
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Actually I grew up on a farm and the bulk of my family are farmers.

Keeping that kind of money on the farm is asking for trouble because you can be sure your staff know about it. Which means lots of people know about it. We've been cashless for years. Staff are paid into their accounts and payment is only accepted by means of eft or bank deposit.

Guns are stored in a safe but if you're already subdued you don't risk your life for them.

Pretty much every farm attack you read about these days involves torture. Thats why people won't just let it go.
 
Pitbull said:
Again, you have no idea of what happens on farms. They are not after a TV and a toaster here. They are after the safes with the guns and money in it. Most farmers have their whole life worth of savings in their safes. If they lose that they are finished anyway. Farmers have huge investments in their crops and if those crops fold they need to survive a season or 2 to get back on their feet.
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See my other reply.
 
Fudzy said:
What farmers are you referring to now? Someone who is taken into the bushes and shot are not tortured either. Think twice, post once.
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So thats ok. It's not torture if you are dragged to the bush in agony maybe pleading for your life knowing you're going to be shot? Only in your mind for sure! So being shot makes it all OK in your mind as that is not to extract information from you?

FFS you are such an ....whatever.....


Here you go and explain this one away.
atomcrusher said:
This may have been posted previously ..



http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Murdered-farm-couple-tortured-for-hours-court-hears-20150220
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http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Murdered-farm-couple-tortured-for-hours-court-hears-20150220

Bloemfontein - Shocking details of the attack and murder of an elderly Free State couple emerged during a bail application of one of their attackers on Thursday.

Toon, 72, and Rienie Swanepoel, 70, were shot dead on their farm Waaikraal, near Bainsvlei, Bloemfontein, on 12 January 2015. Their bodies were found in a wooded area on their property. A television, firearms and a vehicle were stolen.

Three suspects were later arrested on charges of murder, rape and robbery. The stolen items recovered.

Netwerk24 reported on Friday that one of the suspects, Jacobus Motsamai Bitterbos, 25, applied for bail in the Bloemfontein Magistrate's Court on Thursday.

The other two suspects, Fana Hendrik Ntshudi, 19, and Jackie Louw, 19, abandoned their bail bid. They will remain in police custody.

Torture

Investigating officer Kobus Coetzee told the court that the couple were tied to a single bed and tortured for hours. The men took turns to rape Rienie while her husband was forced to watch.

Coetzee testified that the suspects told him they had shot Toon in the leg to bring him under control because he was fighting back.

They were then taken to a remote part of the farm where Toon was shot dead. Rienie was then made to lie on her husband's body before she was shot dead.

The scene resembling an exercise for target shooting, Coetzee testified.

The prosecutor in the case argued that Bitterbos was a repeat offender and should be denied bail. A decision will be made on Friday
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BrandonH said:
Pretty much every farm attack you read about these days involves torture. Thats why people won't just let it go.
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In almost all cases it's to extract information, not to appease Winnie Mandela as some might be believe.
 
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