Farm Attacks

[Marius Flash]

Agreed.

The army is called to the Western Cape to assist with gang murders and activities. Farmers though... who cares right? What a farking joke...

^ This ....... priorities are so overlooked - I remain in complete confusion

 

[Pitbull]

What true colours?

WHY are farmers targeted? There is ZERO proof that they are targeted BECAUSE they are farmers and that the ANC condones OR encourages it. They don't go kill a farmer and think "wow, hey look, he has guns, who knew?", "oh wow, i didn't think when murdering him he would have so much money lying around", "gee, it is a good thing that we murdered this guy here, in a populated area people may have been able to hear their screams."

I am sure there are a lot of whites that ARE murdered out of racism, the stupid **** the ANC says and because they were taught to hate whites - but you cannot

1.) Make a blanket statement and state this counts for every farm attack
2.) Act like torture and violence is something exclusively done against white farmers only
3.) Prove with any tangible evidence that anyone in government is supporting this, else it would have been revealed already

1. No one is claiming each and every farm attack is driven purely by hate or were not related to a normal robbery. Unless you can prove otherwise ofc.
(The issue is that it's out of control and needs attention and very quickly. For a couple of reasons: Farmers provide food to you and I, they are also some of the heaviest armed men in the country. I honestly don't want them to take up arms as that would lead to a lot more shyte than we already have)

2. Again, no one is claiming that, unless you can prove otherwise ofc.
(When you have people tortured to death and nothing stolen. That doesn't make sense does it? When a farmer is shot and killed at his gate and not even his wallet stolen... what now?)

3. So singing about killing the Boere and the Farmers, taking land by any means necessary and saying land was stolen from the black people on the one hand, and then refusing to admit farm attacks being a reality as well as the pure brutality of these attacks coupled with taking ZERO action to try and stem it. Not a single member of the ANC has come forward and spoken out publically about these attacks. You then also remove a system that was in place specifically to protect farmers and not replace it with a working system.

Yes, you are right. There is no tangible proof, but lack of action in itself is also proof. You are just too naïve to realise that.

 

[STS]

Let me ask you this, why aim at Koos and Johan about over throwing the Government when we talking about attacks on farms against Farmers. Why not aim your focus on those commiting the crimes, why focus on the victims? This actually shows how naïve you are. Like blaming the woman for being raped...

I am saying people say and do stupid ****, but sometimes they don't act on it. I am sure as a white person you have experienced other white people confiding their racist remarks in you because they assume you share a similar view point just because you are white? We did not blame the woman for being raped, we stated that it's hard to take the story seriously with no evidence.

I never claimed that. We have brutal murders all over the country. The fact that being a farmer you are more likely to be murdered while farming than winning the lotto does actually show they are the targeted group. No matter how you try and dress up this issue. The facts are there. You are more likely to be killed as a farmer than any other profession in this country. You are 4 times more likely to be killed on a farm as opposed to a normal citizen. But alas... facts elude you

And you can prove that the murderers/robbers/attackers real aims were how? Have you spoken to any of them? have you read any of the statements? Do you know any of them? Coz if you can share anything that would count as EVIDENCE which I asked for earlier

So if a farmer went to go live in a city, their livelyhood would increase? Do they stop being a farmer by traveling 30km down the road?

I'm not forgetting them. I look after myself first then other people. Staying in a rural area and being seen as a farmer I have to worry about my own safety first before I worry about anyone else's. I do feel for those people. I never claimed not to have I? Have anyone else? They can fight their own cause while we fight ours. Once my issue is resolved I will gladly focus on their needs and requirements. I farm because I love it. I can easily move to a security estate with high walls and noisy and nosey neighbours. But I don't because I like this freedom I have and providing the same for my kids. Yet it comes at a price, something you will never understand but feel it your right to come here and try to justify farm murders as just another murder because other's get murdered too. No murder is justified ever. Yet some murders according to statistics are more likely than others and needs to be addressed in order or priority. Your little SWJ view can't change facts and statistics no matter how hard you try...

And likewise, I look after myself first and see everybody the same. The guy murdered in his tin shack is no different to the farmer murdered in his house to me, I have no emotional bond to either of them so I can look at this objectively. A woman recently had her head and arm cut off in the news, was SHE a farmer? are we dedicating an entire thread now to women who are mutilated and harmed because it's an epidemic in our country?

you can tell the kids of a murdered man that his murder means less than somebody else's murder because there is a magical list of priorities, punted by an imaginary genocide that nobody in this thread has been able to post evidence for. all murders are wrong, so when people get over their **** online and on social media and start sticking up for one another, then we can deal with this ****. who the **** has the right to tell us whose lives are more important than others or on what days we should wear black when we are all equally affected everyday?

 

[Marius Flash]

What true colours?

WHY are farmers targeted? There is ZERO proof that they are targeted BECAUSE they are farmers and that the ANC condones OR encourages it. They don't go kill a farmer and think "wow, hey look, he has guns, who knew?", "oh wow, i didn't think when murdering him he would have so much money lying around", "gee, it is a good thing that we murdered this guy here, in a populated area people may have been able to hear their screams."

I am sure there are a lot of whites that ARE murdered out of racism, the stupid **** the ANC says and because they were taught to hate whites - but you cannot

1.) Make a blanket statement and state this counts for every farm attack
2.) Act like torture and violence is something exclusively done against white farmers only
3.) Prove with any tangible evidence that anyone in government is supporting this, else it would have been revealed already

I don't think anyone here is referring to your 3 points, it's how you are interpreting what they are saying? They can't and neither can you....But we all can agree that the murders against FARMERS are alarming and has to STOP - got nothing to do with race - but with Farmers ending up murdered - Why ? That is the question that needs to be answered !

 

[STS]

Its just that the consequences of killing a farmer are so much greater than murdering someone in Lavender Hill

That I do get, but they have a bad way of showing this on social media.

Go onto social media and search for farm attacks. read the comments. even if everyone chipped in to help, they wouldn'tt want help because they have racialised it. this has stopped being about murders and preventing them, this is now about conspiracies and having their own separate state

 

[etienne_marais]

Back in the day this was the spirit (Of course things have changed now and all members of South Africa have embraced a common worldview and understanding of South Africa based on how certain people thought it would turn out).

[video=youtube;a6NJitdq8Bk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6NJitdq8Bk&t=6s[/video]

 

[Moosedrool]

1.) Make a blanket statement and state this counts for every farm attack

No one did that.

2.) Act like torture and violence is something exclusively done against white farmers only

No one did that either.

3.) Prove with any tangible evidence that anyone in government is supporting this, else it would have been revealed already

You can't create a claim and ask other people to prove that claim. And you can't prove what people think. But yeah I can't say anyone in government directly supports farm murders. But what I can say is that they definitely incite due to racist officials working in government.

For the inciting and blatant racism the lack of attention is evidence enough. The quote of BLF "Fight for it by all means necessary." The inciting hate speech song I showed you. What you want as tangible evidence... A government official on your doorstep saying they support this?

Your argument is that forum members are making this about racism. With any single one of the above your argument is lost.


Edit: Shyte my post and pitbull's post are almost exactly the same. It's a busy day and can't reply quickly enough.

 

[STS]

I don't have time to deal with all the responses, so I am making one more point before I go:

All murders are wrong, i can understand the stress emphasised on farmers as they supply a critical service to the country.

You are just muddying the water with all these conspiracies and others are making the situation worse when they racialise it. When you make an issue bigger than what is actually happening, you alienate people. We all stand universally against murder and injustice, we all stand for keeping the critical services running in our country.

When people go onto mention race, or government, or agenda, you begin pushing people away who wanted to help. People take the murders of good people and use them to push their own agenda for racism too.

Make the global community aware, let the world know, but stop making it a joke. If there are real plans to hurt farmers, show the evidence. Include all races in this solution that we need to find

 

[Sl8er]

Out of curiosity:

How many people need to die for it to, officially, be labeled "genocide"?
What does the ratio of deaths to the number of people need to be, to be labeled "genocide"?

 

[genelock]

Out of curiosity:

How many people need to die for it to, officially, be labeled "genocide"?
What does the ratio of deaths to the number of people need to be, to be labeled "genocide"?

I don't think it could ever be called genocide.these killings are commited against a small part(farmers)of a small ethnic minority. Its not like its an agenda of mass killing of white people

some non-white farmers also get murdered by the way

 

[Sideshow Bob]

Its just that the consequences of killing a farmer are so much greater than murdering someone in Lavender Hill

And how does it compare to the lives in Kleinfontein, Faerie Glen, Waterkloof - a bit less important than lavender hills/more/equal?

 

[grok]

I don't think it could ever be called genocide.these killings are commited against a small part(farmers)of a small ethnic minority. Its not like its an agenda of mass killing of white people

some non-white farmers also get murdered by the way

That's why you should look at proportions, if farmers are 10 times (random number for example) more likely to be murdered than the average citizen then there's something wrong, even thought the actual numbers may be small compared to the rest of the population.

 

[Sl8er]

I don't think it could ever be called genocide.these killings are commited against a small part(farmers)of a small ethnic minority. Its not like its an agenda of mass killing of white people

some non-white farmers also get murdered by the way

I'm not talking about farm killings -even though this is the topic at hand; I should've been more clear.

I'm talking about "genocide".
(I asked about it here, because it's been mentioned a few times.)

 

[Pitbull]

I am saying people say and do stupid ****, but sometimes they don't act on it. I am sure as a white person you have experienced other white people confiding their racist remarks in you because they assume you share a similar view point just because you are white? We did not blame the woman for being raped, we stated that it's hard to take the story seriously with no evidence.

Again, don't know why you are focusing on racist remarks by white people in conversation. I don't see how this is relevant to chanting killings of a group of people as the ruling political party of the country and also by a Right wing group (EFF) calling for people to take land any means necessary... You're trying to cloud the issue here by attacking the victims for some reason.

And you can prove that the murderers/robbers/attackers real aims were how? Have you spoken to any of them? have you read any of the statements? Do you know any of them? Coz if you can share anything that would count as EVIDENCE which I asked for earlier

So if a farmer went to go live in a city, their livelyhood would increase? Do they stop being a farmer by traveling 30km down the road?

Again, you are very naïve. Farm murders don't exclusively happen in the dead of night when the farmer and his family are sleeping. They get killed in the mornings returning to the farm from Church. Leaving the farm for whatever reason. Yes they also get attacked at night in their houses. But moving to town does not mean they will not be targeted and killed for some reason. You have no idea what you're talking about but feel it your place to argue

There is no way I could know what their real aims were. I never claimed to know nor eluded to knowing their real reasons. When you have a murder anywhere, and nothing was stolen you treat the investigation completely different as to a murder where stuff was stolen. That is criminology 101. So there is obviously a difference between such attacks. Same with murders where a person is stabbed or shot once vs some being stabbed 42 times or shot 9 times. Torture could be for a variety of different reasons. Too bad we can't ask the dead why they were tortured... /facepalm

And likewise, I look after myself first and see everybody the same. The guy murdered in his tin shack is no different to the farmer murdered in his house to me, I have no emotional bond to either of them so I can look at this objectively. A woman recently had her head and arm cut off in the news, was SHE a farmer? are we dedicating an entire thread now to women who are mutilated and harmed because it's an epidemic in our country?

You might look at it objectively you are right. But which of those two people being killed will affect you more. The guy in his shack or the farmer being killed who feeds you. You also think the food in the stores come from some magic place up in the sky? Strange again you refer to the woman being killed with a leg and arm missing where the perp was caught. Most of farm attackers are not caught and those caught eventually most have already committed more than one farm attack... Thus if we had better policing or intervention further attacks by the perps could have been prevented instead of only catching them after they have done a few already and are caught by the locals from the area and not even the police.

you can tell the kids of a murdered man that his murder means less than somebody else's murder because there is a magical list of priorities, punted by an imaginary genocide that nobody in this thread has been able to post evidence for. all murders are wrong, so when people get over their **** online and on social media and start sticking up for one another, then we can deal with this ****. who the **** has the right to tell us whose lives are more important than others or on what days we should wear black when we are all equally affected everyday?

Murder is murder. But a murder of a person who feeds not only me but the rest of the country is more important than some random person yes. And I fail to see how you don't realise that. So yes, all murders are equal I fully agree. But the contribution they made dis the differentiating factor for me. I don't approve of any murder, yet you seem to think I do

 

[etienne_marais]

Stupid, backward, irrational conspiracy theory states that Marxists use Democracy as a stepping stone to centralized communism or adapted (even new) forms with similar underpinnings. It also states that Marxists use confusion, destabilization and anxiety to further their cause with a strong focus on land reform. Fortunately there are no such forces at work, only super rational minded anglo-saxons (and more recently Afrikaners) whose visions time upon time manifest in reality of prosperity and peace with people of all backgrounds working happily together, speaking English and building together as one.

 

[Pitbull]

I don't think anyone here is referring to your 3 points, it's how you are interpreting what they are saying? They can't and neither can you....But we all can agree that the murders against FARMERS are alarming and has to STOP - got nothing to do with race - but with Farmers ending up murdered - Why ? That is the question that needs to be answered !

Agreed.

Seems like STS think we only have white farmers and now all of a sudden it's a white only problem... Farm workers gets killed, black Farmers gets killed too. Farming as a whole is under stack and it's all got to do with land. That is it, nothing more nothing less. Race is not the concern here. Citizens who own property and using that property to feed the nation are being slaughtered for no apparent reason. That is a concern for everyone. Not just me as a small scale weekend farmer but for each and everyone in this country. Yet STS feels it ok to have farmers murdered just like anyone else. Not like having food for us and future generations is important...

 

[Pitbull]

I don't have time to deal with all the responses, so I am making one more point before I go:

All murders are wrong, i can understand the stress emphasised on farmers as they supply a critical service to the country.

You are just muddying the water with all these conspiracies and others are making the situation worse when they racialise it. When you make an issue bigger than what is actually happening, you alienate people. We all stand universally against murder and injustice, we all stand for keeping the critical services running in our country.

When people go onto mention race, or government, or agenda, you begin pushing people away who wanted to help. People take the murders of good people and use them to push their own agenda for racism too.

Make the global community aware, let the world know, but stop making it a joke. If there are real plans to hurt farmers, show the evidence. Include all races in this solution that we need to find

Government will always be mentioned as they are the ones who need to take action. They can't however as it will alienate their voter base who want land for free. So you have a clash of ideologies in your own party. So where does that leave the farmers then. Stop being so bloody naïve... There is an assault on our farmers and sure, some are just random robberies (which do happen and no one killed or tortured) and there is an element of pure brutality and murder with no intent to steal. You ignoring this makes you nothing better than the current Government. Well done!

 

[flippakitten]

My wife made a very good point:
The way to get people off land is through intimidation, fear and killing, it's been happening around the world for centuries and South Africa is no different. Black people didn't just walk round herding cattle, there used to be constant tribal wars and what have you, anyway I digress.

The reason why the ANC haven't down anything and won't do anything about Farm attacks is because it's exactly what they want to happen.

I misplaced my tinfoil hat, so stay with me here:
I wouldn't be surprised if they are covertly funded by the ANC. My reasoning is:
1. Farmers are not actually easy targets. They shoot back, in a lot of cases have loads of security and a strong community.
2. These criminals know how to disable the multiple layers of security, get into the property extremely covertly. They don't sound like your average Rural dweller or street thug.
3. The recent arrest of a SANDF soldier in connection to a farm robbery.
4. The absolute lack of solutions or acknowledgement from the ANC. In fact, the exact opposite by talking about taking land without compensation.
5. Covering up of numbers, if it wasn't for AfriForum, we wouldn't really have anymore details than some scattered reports.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Pitbull]

I'm not talking about farm killings -even though this is the topic at hand; I should've been more clear.

I'm talking about "genocide".
(I asked about it here, because it's been mentioned a few times.)

Genocide I think can only be termed once it becomes a policy. Meaning there is a policy to exterminate a set group of people indiscriminately based on certain traits or criteria like race or religion. But it needs to be a policy, unless someone actually calls for it from an authoritarian point of view it can never be classified as genocide.

 

[Sl8er]

Genocide I think can only be termed once it becomes a policy. Meaning there is a policy to exterminate a set group of people indiscriminately based on certain traits or criteria like race or religion. But it needs to be a policy, unless someone actually calls for it from an authoritarian point of view it can never be classified as genocide.

I understand, but surely there must be a number or percentage attached?

Scenario 1:

People in power don't say a word about anything.
Certain group of people murdered. (3 out of 10)
Not genocide?

Scenario 2:
People in power endorsing violence.
Certain group of people murdered. (3 out of 10)
Genocide?

Would it only be genocide when it's more than 3 out of 10? Or when endorsed by people in power?
(thumbsuck numbers, but you know what I mean.)