Farm Attacks

vigras rojara said:
No, of course it isn't. It's just that implying that criminals hate farmers more than cash in transit security personnel because they never torture the latter, is obvious nonsense.
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You don't torture someone you don't hate, you don't torture someone unless you want something from them, you don't torture someone unless you want to send a message.... it's not something that just happens that's lalaland
 
Emjay said:
You are clearly trying to downplay this crime. It's not run of the mill crime and does not have the same motivations as a robbery.

And you should really do a lot more reading. Torture is becoming more and more prevalent in these cases.
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I am not trying to downplay it at all. I think it's despicable as I've said above.

I just believe that one should be careful not to jump to conclusions about motivation, as some people here seem to do. And I don't doubt that in some instances the criminals actions are driven by hate.

As an aside, I'd be interested to hear what reading you'd recommend?
 
rambo919 said:
You don't torture someone you don't hate, you don't torture someone unless you want something from them, you don't torture someone unless you want to send a message.... it's not something that just happens that's lalaland
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I think in some cases it's to extract information. I have never claimed that hate can't be a factor though.
 
vigras rojara said:
That might well be part of it, but I doubt it's a big contributing factor.

Julius doesn't sing "kill the cash in transit van" yet still those attacks happen.

Sad situation.
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Valid point. But the perps don't then tie up the van driver, torture, and then kill him, do they? Or boil his children alive in front of him? Or make him watch while they rape then murder his wife and daughter so that's the last thing he sees before they kill him, too? I could go on.

Anyone who still thinks that farm murders are the same as any other murder in South Africa is just part of the problem.
 
The Voice said:
Valid point. But the perps don't then tie up the van driver, torture, and then kill him, do they? Or boil his children alive in front of him? Or make him watch while they rape then murder his wife and daughter so that's the last thing he sees before they kill him, too? I could go on.

Anyone who still thinks that farm murders are the same as any other murder in South Africa is just part of the problem.
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Please read the thread, that point was discussed above.
 
skimread said:
www.news24.com

Brendin Horner murder: Two men arrested after Free State farm manager killed, tied to pole | News24

Two men have been arrested in connection with the murder of Free State farm manager Brendin Horner, according to police.
www.news24.com www.news24.com

They are stock thieves so surely they will have to explain why they hanged him up for public display.
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His crime was that there was stock to thieve in the first place..... capitalism is a crime against humanity. This is the revolution continued.
 
thestaggy said:
Sorry, I refuse to see it as ''just another crime''. Not when political rhetoric is aimed at white farmers and land owners.

Another poster summed it up. You sit there listening to the hate and bile spewed by the ANC and EFF about how whites own all the land and blacks suffer. Then you sit and talk among your friends, and simmer and stew in more anger and hate. Your life is sh*t but they have land and it festers. Then you go out and do something like this, making sure that person suffers.
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The disturbing part is even the dumbest here get that, but then we still see people denying this, while here we see people trying to make this off and play smart ass.

Are we to assume these members have more credibility and are more knowledgeable that members of the UN? Nope, just totally lost respect.
 
Emjay said:
Maybe we can make a direct comparison when those who man the vans are tortured before being killed, don't you think?

Always amazes me how brutal black on white crime is just waved away as just run of the mill crime, and when someone says "monkey" and everyone loses collective minds.
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Consider this: How many cash vans are attacked with no attempt at stealing the money? Let me count ... 0.0000000.

I can't believe some people think they're clever making such statements. It proves the opposite.
 
Sollie said:
The disturbing part is even the dumbest here get that, but then we still see people denying this, while here we see people trying to make this off and play smart ass.

Are we to assume these members have more credibility and are more knowledgeable that members of the UN? Nope, just totally lost respect.
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I presume you are referring to me. I don't dispute at all that some of the attacks could and should be classified as hate crimes. I just don't believe they all are, which is a common narrative in these parts.

It would be interesting to know how many of the attacks involve torture though.
 
vigras rojara said:
Doesn't make torture less despicable, but the availability of time makes it possible unfortunately.
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What makes you such an expert? Go and look at the horrendous violence in these farm attacks and justify them with more of your drivel. You have no clue, you are a fool.
 
itsme2 said:
What makes you such an expert? Go and look at the horrendous violence in these farm attacks and justify them with more of your drivel. You have no clue, you are a fool.
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Calm yourself down to a panic...

Where did I say I was an expert? No need to be an expert to understand that farm attackers have more time to carry out their evil acts than cash in transit attackers do.

And I only mentioned cash in transit robberies to point out that political rhetoric isn't the only thing that causes crime. Not very higher grade really.
 
vigras rojara said:
And I only mentioned cash in transit robberies to point out that political rhetoric isn't the only thing that causes crime. Not very higher grade really.
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All crime is not the same, the motivations are not the same. It's a pretty terrible thief that gets so carried away with the fun of boiling babies alive that he forgets to even steal anything.
 
skimread said:
He was murdered. He was tied with a rope around his neck to a pole. It's much easier to say hanged. Is there a better definition? Lynched perhaps?
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Truth be told I would also use hanged if I felt that there's a risk that being tied to a pole does not sound genocide enough.
 
vigras rojara said:
Calm yourself down to a panic...

Where did I say I was an expert? No need to be an expert to understand that farm attackers have more time to carry out their evil acts than cash in transit attackers do.

And I only mentioned cash in transit robberies to point out that political rhetoric isn't the only thing that causes crime. Not very higher grade really.
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Your pointless strawman argument here just shows your inability to comprehend the difference between malicious, hate crimes aimed at farmers and the Afrikaner community, and opportunist cash in transit heists/other theft based crimes. You need to witness some of the horrific brutality in these farm murders, and I can assure you it has nothing to do with 'having more time'.
 
vigras rojara said:
Torture happens in a minority of cases, while a casual reader here would assume it's all cases. I'll see if I can find some stats.

Torture could be for numerous reasons - an attempt to extract information from the victims, personal grudges due to something in the past, or indeed hatred and general savagery.
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It so stupid for these people on this thread to care about farm murders.

There was this one instance of a rural granny somewhere in her 80s being raped and murdered by her own grandchildren.

Nothing real beats that. That is the worst so everyone must just care about and talk about that.
 
vigras rojara said:
Calm yourself down to a panic...

Where did I say I was an expert? No need to be an expert to understand that farm attackers have more time to carry out their evil acts than cash in transit attackers do.

And I only mentioned cash in transit robberies to point out that political rhetoric isn't the only thing that causes crime. Not very higher grade really.
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Ok, so if brutality is linked to time available to the criminal, and not the race of the victim, let's look at your township example, and compare apples with apples: are the victims in township murders also tortured? Unlike CIT attacks, I imagine there is a LOT more time available to an intruder once inside a township dwelling.
 
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