Farm Attacks

RonSwanson said:
True on all counts. It is also far more comfortable and easier to carry openly. But the days are past that an open-carry firearm is a visible deterrent, the predator sees it as motivation.
Training and mindset can change all of this. The only training that farmers get (if any) is static line shooting from standing, kneeling or prone position, great for hunting game, but completely unsuitable for tactical engagement of a "customer" who wants to "buy chickens", or 6-8 "work seekers" who arrive at 02H00. We get taught to be gentlemen, have proper table manners, we don't cheat at games and all that. But CQB training teaches you to "always cheat, always win" no matter what, because the "gentlemen" aren't. Most have had formal SADF training 35-40 years ago at best, the rules that were applied in the SADF were suitable for a battalion of troops, only load your magazine when instructed, only go one-up when you receive the order, wait until you hear the order to fire. Today those same rules of engagement get applied by the farmers, and the farmers get killed, firearms taken away, family tortured and raped.
There needs to be a change in training and mindset.
Click to expand...

Indeed, open carry is looking for kak.

In a fight, if you are not cheating, it is not a serious fight.

The SADF training we went through at the time is not relevant in a SHTF gun fight, yet many still believe 'maar ek was mos in die army...'

Some of the people I was with on my recent hunting trip is family, and I fear for them all the time, because of their mindset.
 
MentellusMaximus said:
Indeed, open carry is looking for kak.

In a fight, if you are not cheating, it is not a serious fight.

The SADF training we went through at the time is not relevant in a SHTF gun fight, yet many still believe 'maar ek was mos in die army...'

Some of the people I was with on my recent hunting trip is family, and I fear for them all the time, because of their mindset.
Click to expand...
The whole situation is quite complex (as well as disturbing) and I think the best deterrent is intelligence (quite a few planned farm attacks were derailed by intelligence from farm workers), communication between farmers, security companies etc and effective policing (ha ha all round, further depleted without reservists; I wonder if the SAPS leader at the EFF celebrations sung "kill the boer" with gusto?). Effective policing has, at least in part and at a cost, been de facto taken over by private security.

Self defence is a last resort, particularly in SA with its lack of any sort of Castle doctrine, rather the opposite with the the government and judicial system often seemingly siding with perpetrators and cracking down on private citizens ownership and use of firearms.
 
Oldfut said:
The whole situation is quite complex (as well as disturbing) and I think the best deterrent is intelligence (quite a few planned farm attacks were derailed by intelligence from farm workers), communication between farmers, security companies etc and effective policing (ha ha all round, further depleted without reservists; I wonder if the SAPS leader at the EFF celebrations sung "kill the boer" with gusto?). Effective policing has, at least in part and at a cost, been de facto taken over by private security.

Self defence is a last resort, particularly in SA with its lack of any sort of Castle doctrine, rather the opposite with the the government and judicial system often seemingly siding with perpetrators and cracking down on private citizens ownership and use of firearms.
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Indeed, the ANC government disbanded the Kommando system which was very good at that.
 
Oldfut said:
The whole situation is quite complex (as well as disturbing) and I think the best deterrent is intelligence (quite a few planned farm attacks were derailed by intelligence from farm workers), communication between farmers, security companies etc and effective policing (ha ha all round, further depleted without reservists; I wonder if the SAPS leader at the EFF celebrations sung "kill the boer" with gusto?). Effective policing has, at least in part and at a cost, been de facto taken over by private security.

Self defence is a last resort, particularly in SA with its lack of any sort of Castle doctrine, rather the opposite with the the government and judicial system often seemingly siding with perpetrators and cracking down on private citizens ownership and use of firearms.
Click to expand...

I agree, but sadly this works both ways, with farm workers being a source of information to the terrorists too, willingly or unwillingly.
What seems to work well (at least to some extent) is the farmers organising their own private 'kommando' system, radio networks, making sure people around you know who belongs in the area, when you are there and when not, and their own private 'reaction' plans.

One of the farms I hunted on close to Musina had a rather large burglary last year.
The attackers had at least some inside information as they knew where to gain access, what was in the house, when people were away, and yet they still tortured some of the workers who were there and not part of it to try gain more information, using boiling water and heated irons.

These ****ers have no morals or remorse, this always puts them at the advantage.

There is now a private anti-poaching team operational in the area, sponsored by the farmers.
Guys from a generation that take no **** and was abandoned by the government (a topic in another thread). This seems to be quite effective at the moment, but as the one side gets organised, the other side will just step up their effort.
 
RonSwanson said:
standertonchroniclenews.wordpress.com

Farm Attack Claims Life of Grootvlei Farmer, Theo Bekker, suspects arrested

On 30 July, in a shocking incident that unfolded, Grootvlei farmer Theo Bekker tragically lost his life during a farm attack. His wife, Marlinda, also suffered severe injuries in the assault. The i…
standertonchroniclenews.wordpress.com standertonchroniclenews.wordpress.com
Click to expand...
www.news24.com

Mpumalanga woman identifies attackers after husband is tortured and killed on farm | News24

Before losing consciousness, the wife of a Grootvlei farmer was able to identify two of the four attackers who slit her husband's throat after beating him with an iron bar.
www.news24.com www.news24.com

A lot of these attackers have insider info or involvement of insiders
He was severely beaten with iron bars before they slit his throat. Before losing consciousness, his wife could tell police that she recognised the attackers. One or two of them either worked on the farm or the next-door farm.
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wingnut771 said:
ANC government wants a weak populous who can't defend themselves hence the draconian gun laws and disbanded Kommandos.
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The disbanding of the Kommandos was a huge mistake, but driven for slightly different reasons. The Kommandos historically fell under the SADF, so became part of the SANDF. They were paid volunteers, issued with browns, R4s, B52 radios and night vision. The vast majority were black, and historically they were under command of white Kommando members, who held the ranks of officer and above. That is not to say that there were no whites with no rank (Privates), or white NCOs, but the ranks of senior officers were largely white. This, in the eyes of the SAPS and SADF, created many problems for them (worthy of its own thread) leading to the disbanding of the Kommandos. Basically because of racism, but also because they needed more "control" over the volunteers (and the farmers). Same with the SAPS reserve, too many unpaid volunteers that were better at policeing than the permanent members, and were posing a significant threat to the corruption, rot and malfeasance within Jackie Selebi's SAPS structures.
 
MentellusMaximus said:
In a fight, if you are not cheating, it is not a serious fight.
Click to expand...
There are no rules in fight club. If you don't cheat, you will not survive.

Remember, you can prepare the battlefield, but the ne'er-do-wells can't, and they will not expect the Spanish Inquisition.
 
MentellusMaximus said:
That also contributes, but the average person will also never know how they will react when SHTF until SHTF.
Click to expand...
Just for something interesting - watch "How It Ends" and see what happens when SHTF hits, and you're prepared for it, but then the unexpected happens...

You can have a really good and solid SHTF plan and execution thereof, but there are many, many spanners that will arrive to throw you off course, none of which is possible to include in your SHTF planning.
The best is to have a SHFT planned on a point-by-point staged approach, but even then you're not guaranteed for a 100% success rate. And do not fixate on a single route or way out. Incorporate several.

Which is next to impossible.

So, just wing it with a prayer and a Peacemaker at your side. :)
 
RonSwanson said:
True on all counts. It is also far more comfortable and easier to carry openly. But the days are past that an open-carry firearm is a visible deterrent, the predator sees it as motivation.
Training and mindset can change all of this. The only training that farmers get (if any) is static line shooting from standing, kneeling or prone position, great for hunting game, but completely unsuitable for tactical engagement of a "customer" who wants to "buy chickens", or 6-8 "work seekers" who arrive at 02H00. We get taught to be gentlemen, have proper table manners, we don't cheat at games and all that. But CQB training teaches you to "always cheat, always win" no matter what, because the "gentlemen" aren't. Most have had formal SADF training 35-40 years ago at best, the rules that were applied in the SADF were suitable for a battalion of troops, only load your magazine when instructed, only go one-up when you receive the order, wait until you hear the order to fire. Today those same rules of engagement get applied by the farmers, and the farmers get killed, firearms taken away, family tortured and raped.
There needs to be a change in training and mindset.
Click to expand...

The big problem is that the attacker will almost always have the advantage. They can be armed, "buy chickens", and if things don't look favourable for them, they can buy the chicken and leave.
Or, they can shoot you when your back is turned, and you're f'ed.

If you shoot and you're wrong about them, you are also f'ed (and you just murdered an innocent person), as is evident from some of the court cases in the news. That means a farmer HAS to have some hesitation. And while he's figuring out if he should shoot or not, someone shoots him.
Couple that with community unrest when randoms aren't allowed to walk through his land, and the odds are really stacked against farmers and any law abiding citizens for that matter.
 
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