First Public Flight For China's Stealth Fighter

[f2wohf]

It is more a case where the Russians provided them with the tools, but excluded the maintenance plans.

The Chinese economy in the world today allows them to do remarkable things.

The J31 however copies American 5th gen tech or so it is believed.

Remarkable ? Like being the factory of the world and bringing very very very few innovation compared to the money they put in it ?

A locked society without free thinking cannot bring innovation as fast as a free one !

Check this https://hbr.org/2014/03/why-china-cant-innovate

 

[Fulcrum29]

Remarkable ? Like being the factory of the world and bringing very very very few innovation compared to the money they put in it ?

A locked society without free thinking cannot bring innovation as fast as a free one !

Check this https://hbr.org/2014/03/why-china-cant-innovate

There is a big difference between innovation and bargaining power.

I can already smell a West vs East debate brewing.

 

[ponder]

I can already smell a West vs East debate brewing.

Says the guy with the Fulcrum29 nick

 

[Arthur]

Is he the only one with a NATO handle?

 

[Fulcrum29]

Says the guy with the Fulcrum29 nick

One thing though. China themselves made it clear that they will produce the J-31 in order to export its export-variants, ahem, dumping… Otherwise they could had thrown money at Russia to support the R&D with the Sukhoi PAK FA.

The F-35 is pre-ordered to the bone, Japan being a big potential buyer. This American export deal eliminates most 1st world countries as go-to-markets… so to whom will the Chinese be selling to?

 

[Space_Chief]

One thing though. China themselves made it clear that they will produce the J-31 in order to export its export-variants, ahem, dumping… Otherwise they could had thrown money at Russia to support the R&D with the Sukhoi PAK FA.

The F-35 is pre-ordered to the bone, Japan being a big potential buyer. This American export deal eliminates most 1st world countries as go-to-markets… so to whom will the Chinese be selling to?

I think Japanese are wanting to develop their own Mistsubishi fighters for internal use and export. In addition there is a prospect of real war between Japan and China. To have a fighter the Chinese know very well and of similar performance as the Chinese would be a terribly bad idea. And Japan has modified their constitution to become more assertive in the military and military trade/export field.

Japan and China are biggest enemies.

 

[w1z4rd]

Says the guy with the Fulcrum29 nick

Im reading up on these planes based on your comment and I came across this:

On 20 April 2008, Georgian officials claimed a Russian MiG-29 shot down a Georgian Hermes 450 unmanned aerial vehicle and provided video footage from the ill-fated drone showing an apparent MiG-29 launching an air-to-air missile at it. Russia denies that the aircraft was theirs and says they did not have any pilots in the air that day. Abkhazia’s administration claimed its own forces shot down the drone with an L-39 aircraft "because it was violating Abkhaz airspace and breaching ceasefire agreements."[26] UN investigation concluded that the video was authentic and that the drone was shot down by a Russian MiG-29 or Su-27 using a R-73 heat seeking missile.[27]

Its amazing how often the Russians lie about shooting down stuff.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I think Japanese are wanting to develop their own Mistsubishi fighters for internal use and export. In addition there is a prospect of real war between Japan and China. To have a fighter the Chinese know very well and of similar performance as the Chinese would be a terribly bad idea. And Japan has modified their constitution to become more assertive in the military and military trade/export field.

Japan and China are biggest enemies.

Japan is buying F-35 units.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f22-raptors-to-japan-01909/

In December 2011, Japan picked Lockheed Martin’s new F-35A stealth fighter as its next fighter aircraft, to replace its aging F-4 “Kai” Phantom fleet. The F-35 was actually their 2nd choice.

Back in February 2006, Inside The Air Force (ITAF) reported that momentum was building within the USAF to sell the ultra-advanced F-22A Raptor abroad to trusted US allies, as a way of increasing numbers and production. Japan clearly wanted them, and the Raptor was a topic of diplomatic discussions in several venues, including a 2007 summit meeting. In the end, however, US politics denied export permission for downgraded export variants of the F-22, and its production line was terminated. That left Japan looking at other foreign “F-X” fighter options in the short term, while they considered a domestic stealth fighter design as their long-term project.

In the ensuing F-X competition, the F-35 Lightning II beat BAE’s Eurofighter Typhoon, as well as an upgraded F/A-18E Super Hornet from Boeing. Now Lockheed Martin has to deliver, and so will its Japanese partners. Will the F-35A’s price and program delays create problems in Japan? This article looks at the JASDF’s current force, its future options, and ongoing F-X developments.

Japan ordered 42 units and in June this year considered to replace all their F-15s with F-35s in 2018, that is 200 units in total. The F-35 production was halted earlier... after one caught fire as it prepared to take off in Florida this year.

India is co-developing their own Sukhoi PAK FA variant with Russia, the Sukhoi/HAL FGFA which is an improved version on the PAK FA. This development is on-going since 2007.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Im reading up on these planes based on your comment and I came across this:



Its amazing how often the Russians lie about shooting down stuff.

Unfortunately for you, it is not only Russians flying MiG's and Sukhoi's.

 

[The_Assimilator]

This American export deal eliminates most 1st world countries as go-to-markets… so to whom will the Chinese be selling to?

I doubt the Chinese are producing these for export purposes, more to maintain (or rather, give the illusion of maintaining) technical parity with the USA. You'd think that would be easy considering they stole most of the J-31's tech from the USA to start with, but the fact that they're using a half-century-old engine design indicates that Pratt & Whitney are better at keeping secrets than Lockheed-Martin.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I doubt the Chinese are producing these for export purposes, more to maintain (or rather, give the illusion of maintaining) technical parity with the USA. You'd think that would be easy considering they stole most of the J-31's tech from the USA to start with, but the fact that they're using a half-century-old engine design indicates that Pratt & Whitney are better at keeping secrets than Lockheed-Martin.

Maybe or maybe not...

http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/...on-fighter-jet-j31-performs-more-flight-tests

A large model of the J-31, designated as "F-60", appeared at the Zhuhai 2012 Airshow, indicating a Chinese willingness to export the J-31 as a international competitor to the F-35. Once it enters service, the J-31 is likely to be serve alongside less numerous J-20s as part of a "high/low" combination, similar to the F-35/F-22 mix in the US Air Force.

The Pratt & Whitney engine used in the F-35 is a single-engine sibling of the twin-engine Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor. I also don't see what is wrong with the MiG-29 engine, it had been updated (and modified) throughout time and had entered its 6th generation. The RD-33 (RD-93 variant) is utilised in the JF-17 and is quite a new variant, though based on a half-century-old engine as you had remarked.

 

[Space_Chief]

Japan is buying F-35 units.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/f22-raptors-to-japan-01909/



Japan ordered 42 units and in June this year considered to replace all their F-15s with F-35s in 2018, that is 200 units in total. The F-35 production was halted earlier... after one caught fire as it prepared to take off in Florida this year.

India is co-developing their own Sukhoi PAK FA variant with Russia, the Sukhoi/HAL FGFA which is an improved version on the PAK FA. This development is on-going since 2007.

Well it's a stupid decision, or they'll be only running very few of them, or it's a temporary measure.

It makes no sense as the next war in Asia is going to be between Japan and China with/out US involvement.

Their main or superiority fighter will probably be one of their own, or a US variant. It would be madness to go Chinese here.
http://www.janes.com/article/36713/japan-s-indigenous-stealth-jet-prototype-to-fly-this-year

OK I misread that, they are as thought buying Lockheed Martins and not Chinese planes.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Well it's a stupid decision, or they'll be only running very few of them, or it's a temporary measure.

It makes no sense as the next war in Asia is going to be between Japan and China with/out US involvement.

Their main or superiority fighter will probably be one of their own, or a US variant. It would be madness to go Chinese here.
http://www.janes.com/article/36713/japan-s-indigenous-stealth-jet-prototype-to-fly-this-year

The issue here is that a prototype takes years to enter production, then service. How long did it take the F-22 to see combat since it entered production, and the program is already cancelled? Japan is ensuring contingency, though I believe the EuroFighter is a better choice... budget wise.

Read this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...eans-a-full-fleet-for-canada/article21552401/

By buying 'only' four F-35s, Canada will be locked into a larger deal

 

[w1z4rd]

Unfortunately for you, it is not only Russians flying MiG's and Sukhoi's.

Yeah sure. *nudge nudge, wink wink* (to it being anyone but the russians who shot down that uav)

 

[Space_Chief]

The issue here is that a prototype takes years to enter production, then service. How long did it take the F-22 to see combat since it entered production, and the program is already cancelled? Japan is ensuring contingency, though I believe the EuroFighter is a better choice... budget wise.

Read this:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...eans-a-full-fleet-for-canada/article21552401/

Sure, it's a longer term goal but they will have to do it. But Japan has only recently embarked on a new strategy. They're slowly dumping their pacifist constitution as they realise that
1. US influence is weakening.
2. China is a foe which is on the rise.
3. US will expect Japan to contribute more to the defence of SEA.
4. Arms exports are good business in an era where Korea and China are taking more and more of Japanese tech business.

However, Japan as a buyer of significant numbers of Chinese export fighters, I don't think so.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Yeah sure. *nudge nudge, wink wink*

Yah well, Russians are looking for trouble, more so exploiting where they in the future want to lay claim. Again and again. They are stuck with a horrible authority.

 

[Fulcrum29]

Sure, it's a longer term goal but they will have to do it. But Japan has only recently embarked on a new strategy. They're slowly dumping their pacifist constitution as they realise that
1. US influence is weakening.
2. China is a foe which is on the rise.
3. US will expect Japan to contribute more to the defence of SEA.
4. Arms exports are good business in an era where Korea and China are taking more and more of Japanese tech business.

However, Japan as a buyer of significant numbers of Chinese export fighters, I don't think so.

I never said anything about Japan negotiating to purchase Chinese arsenals.

Japan needs to replace two outgoing planes:

1. The F-4 Phantom (80-units) - to be systematically replaced by F-35's (42-units)
2. The F-15J* (200-units) - to be replaced by 2018

*Mitsubishi F-15J based on the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle.

To note, the 42 F35's is on order, production was halted which may provide reason to withdraw the deal.

Anyway, Japanese news:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...5-jets-price-falls-onodera-says/#.VGT1GZCUfOg

FORT WORTH, TEXAS – Japan may purchase additional F-35 fighter jets if their procurement costs fall, Defense Minister Itsunori Onodera said Tuesday after visiting a Lockheed Martin Corp. assembly plant in Fort Worth, Texas.

“If the unit price falls, it may be important to reconsider the number of fighters (Japan will buy),” said Onodera, who held talks with senior officials from Lockheed Martin at the factory.

As the successor to the aging F-4 Phantom operated by the Air Self-Defense Force, the F-35 has advanced stealth capabilities and can escape radar detection. The ASDF currently has 42 of them on order.

The Defense Ministry and the ASDF also need to replace roughly half of the 200 or so aging F-15 fighter jets currently in operation, and Onodera’s remarks suggest that the government might favor the F-35 as a replacement.

A five-year defense program, in operation through fiscal 2018, says Japan will “consider replacing those F-15s that do not get refurbished with more advanced fighters.”

Last Thursday, the U.S. Department of Defense said it was grounding the country’s entire fleet of F-35 fighter jets for engine inspections, after one caught fire as it prepared to take off in Florida in late June.

 

[Space_Chief]

I never said anything about Japan negotiating to purchase Chinese arsenals.

Japan needs to replace two outgoing planes:

1. The F-4 Phantom (80-units) - to be systematically replaced by F-35's (42-units)
2. The F-15J* (200-units) - to be replaced by 2018

*Mitsubishi F-15J based on the McDonnell Douglas F-15 Eagle.

To note, the 42 F35's is on order, production was halted which may provide reason to withdraw the deal.

Anyway, Japanese news:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...5-jets-price-falls-onodera-says/#.VGT1GZCUfOg

I misunderstood you. I thought you suggested that the Chinese plane would be sold to Japan.

 

[Fulcrum29]

I misunderstood you. I thought you suggested that the Chinese plane would be sold to Japan.

Haha, no problem. Ja, a deal like that will initiate groot *** in those territories.

The Chinese wants to mass produce their 3 new planes, much like the Soviet Union did in the past. I really cannot see any country purchasing Chinese hardware. The only country which can possibly be approached is India as a viable market, but they are already investing into a superior product.