Forced overtime @ normal hours rate

cavedog

cavedog

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So 3 weeks ago we all got to work and the power was off. There was burnt substation and City of Tshwane expected the power to be off for the whole day.

I can not do my work if there is no electricity so we just stood around and 12pm the workshop manager sent everyone home on condition that we work overtime the coming Saturday.

3 weeks later they gave us papers saying we are now forced too work overtime everyday including Saturday until 7pm normal closing time is 16:45.

Everyone agreed but the next line of the letter stated because of the power outage and because we were sent home early we will forfeit overtime rate and will only be paid normal hours rate. Failure to adhere to this notice would result in disciplinary action being taken....

Is this legal or not?
 
Sounds liek you had 4:45 of time off work, given that you were sent home at 12:00.

So, if you stay at work from 4:45 to 7PM for 2 days, your "time off" is "paid off" so to speak. Not sure how the maths works in Richards bay, but in JHB that letter doesn't make sense.
 
None of it is legal unless stipulated and agreed to in your employment contract.
 
Do you normally work on Saturdays?

So now they are forcing you to work on Saturdays until 7PM?

My advice - contact a labour lawyer or the CCMA.

Do you earn more than R205 000 per year? If you do, you are exempt from overtime pay. Meaning that, you can still get overtime pay at 1.5, but only if your employer is nice to you. If they aren't, you might not get anything at all for working extra hours.

Should you be "that guy" and get legal advice? Yes, you should. Employers get away with stuff like this because employees allow them to.

My personal opinion is that the loss of that substation and the productivity is lamentable but not your fault. It wasn't like you guys were lazy. You were sent home by your boss because quite rightly there was nothing for you to do. Unfortunately your company is at the mercy of other things that will affect productivity. I guarantee you that productivity dropped during the Oscar Pistorius trial but I don't see your company expecting people to work overtime for that. It is just less visible.

There will always be things to affect productivity. We have fire drills in the office sometimes. When they happen, it probably wastes a good 45 minutes of everybody's time. Unfortunately, it happens, nothing the company can do. What if there was a natural disaster that affected the office? A fire for instance? They can't always get time back.

This smells like an overzealous manager who thinks he can get away with it.

If they want to catch the time up, surely you would be obliged to work overtime only until that time is repaid? As above, I don't agree that it should be repaid, but even if it needs to be repaid, it would be pretty quick for you to reach 8 hours of overtime. If you are working 2 hours overtime per day, then it only takes 4 working days to make it up.

Maybe the business is going through a tough time and will fold unless you guys put in some hard graft to make up the time. That is a possibility. But if that is the case, they would get far better mileage asking you to contribute instead of telling you do it or else. Also, why not just list specific tasks or deliverables that need to be done? If you get those done in say 4 hours of overtime, then all is forgiven. What this will mean is that you will find more ways to waste time at work. I see more coffee breaks in your future.
 
cavedog said:
So 3 weeks ago we all got to work and the power was off. There was burnt substation and City of Tshwane expected the power to be off for the whole day.

I can not do my work if there is no electricity so we just stood around and 12pm the workshop manager sent everyone home on condition that we work overtime the coming Saturday.

3 weeks later they gave us papers saying we are now forced too work overtime everyday including Saturday until 7pm normal closing time is 16:45.

Everyone agreed but the next line of the letter stated because of the power outage and because we were sent home early we will forfeit overtime rate and will only be paid normal hours rate. Failure to adhere to this notice would result in disciplinary action being taken....

Is this legal or not?
Click to expand...

Depending on your trade it's very legal. Called "short-time". If for some reason there is no work to be done but you get paid the same you make up for the time they paid you. I know my brother as an Electrician has this at times where the construction is behind and they are booked to do the wiring. So they get paid but don't do shyte till the construction is done so they can do the wiring. They then do the wiring up and above their normal hours to make up with the deadlines.

Again, not sure what trade you in.
 
According to Labour Legislation in SA...

1) Normal business hours are from 8 am to 5pm on Weekdays (Mon to Fri).
2) If you are not able to work those hours due to being hindered, then your employer can keep you at the office or send you home, but he has to pay you for those hours that you would have worked.
3) Your employer can elect to give you a day's forced leave - but he would have to give you fair notice of that - announcing it on the morning of a power failure is not fair.
4) Any work you do that is unscheduled in the week due to being hindered should be worked at an overtime rate - either 1.33, 1.5 or 2.0.
5) If he wants to swap out hours on Saturday for hours missed in the week - then that should be stipulated in your employment contract.
6) He should have an insurance policy in place to cover him for loss of earnings or unintended expenses due to business interruption.
7) He should also look at getting a generator.

Source:
http://www.labourguide.co.za/conditions-of-employment/389-hours-of-work-and-overtime
http://www.labour.gov.za/DOL/legislation/acts/basic-guides/basic-guide-to-working-hours
http://www.labour.gov.za/DOL/legislation/acts/basic-guides/basic-guide-to-overtime
http://www.mywage.co.za/main/decent-work/compensation/hours-and-overtime
http://www.fin24.com/Finweek/Opinion/working-overtime-understand-the-legalities-20160420
https://www.findanattorney.co.za/content_employment-act-working-hours
 
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Yes I was paid for the 4 hours I was sent home early.

I don't mind to work overtime but I was expecting to be paid @ 1.5 per hour of time worked over time. Contract clearly states Monday to Friday 7:30 to 16:45 and if overtime is expected I would be notified a day prior. All overtime notices are handed to employees in writing.
 
cavedog said:
Yes I was paid for the 4 hours I was sent home early.

I don't mind to work overtime but I was expecting to be paid @ 1.5 per hour of time worked over time. Contract clearly states Monday to Friday 7:30 to 16:45 and if overtime is expected I would be notified a day prior. All overtime notices are handed to employees in writing.
Click to expand...

Overtime is not compulsory and they can not force you to work overtime as long as you are reaching your are performing as agreed
 
Scare tactic, how they can do that. Everyone signed only because of that last line :mad:. Nothing you can do now but next time [hopefully never again] don't sign it [if it says disciplinary hearing]. :)

Edit: Above replies sum it up nicely :)
 
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Yuu said:
Scare tactic, how they can do that. Everyone signed only because of that last line :mad:. Nothing you can do now but next time [hopefully never again] don't sign it [if it says disciplinary hearing]. :)

Edit: Above replies sum it up nicely :)
Click to expand...
Even if he signs doesn't make it legal. He can still challenge it. The labour law is quite clear on that part from what I understand. What he's employer is doing is not legal and he has every right to challenge he's employer on that. The fact the the employer threatened the employees with disciplinary action like that will make matters only worse for the employer should someone do go and challenge it. And if this do end up in a disciplinary hearing, the employer will get burned badly.

Don't know your personal circumstances, but if at all possible, don't take this lying down. Try and challenge it. If more than one person can challenge it, even better for you.
 
Few years back I think 2015 our general manager wanted to try same ***** the was no electricity, for two days in a raw he paid us for those two days. But he wanted us to repay those two days by working Saturday when we were supposed to be off, workers and union guys refused since it was not out fault that the was a problem with electricity.
 
No contract can supersede the law. If you signed a contract and something on that contract is illegal, it's not valid. What OP's employer is doing is not legal. CCMA is an option but then you can kiss your job goodbye anyway. Best idea would be to voice these concerns with a manager (in private) and get it cleared up.
 
cavedog said:
Yes I was paid for the 4 hours I was sent home early.

I don't mind to work overtime but I was expecting to be paid @ 1.5 per hour of time worked over time. Contract clearly states Monday to Friday 7:30 to 16:45 and if overtime is expected I would be notified a day prior. All overtime notices are handed to employees in writing.
Click to expand...
There's a threshold where if you cross it (in terms of annual salary) you will get paid your normal rate for overtime:
The current threshold is R205 433.30 per year.
Click to expand...
http://www.labourguide.co.za/conditions-of-employment/389-hours-of-work-and-overtime

So if you get paid in excess of that per annum you won't get paid 1.5x your rate
 
Considering the state of the economy I would not make much of a fuss. Things are tough for companies right now and its probably a poorly implemented attempt to get the company profitable again. Could have been done in a kinder way but sometimes trying that way gets you even more burnt.

If it was my manager who I have an excellent relationship with I would just ask what is happening and why mentioning in passing that the 1x overtime is hard for staff to accept but we understand if it is to save all our jobs.

On the other hand some managers are a lot less reasonable and approachable. In those cases if it seems unreasonable I found the best way to improve the situation is not to fight it out with the company and get branded as the agitator, its better to look around for a better offer with a better company and just leave. If they get upset thank them for the job but politely explain to them that the way they are treating the staff is not as good as some competing company and hence you would rather work there for the better pay/perks/treatment.
 
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