Fracking in the Karoo - why it's bad

joelus said:
In second half of 20th century, several methods of disposal of radioactive waste were investigated by nuclear nations... None of these are particularly encouraging, considering they have to remain safely out of the way for thousands of years.
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You are thinking of old tech. Have a look at the promising Liquid Thorium nuclear designs, much cleaner, much safer, and much cheaper than traditional Uranium-based fission plants
 
joelus said:
Yeah but I thought you were having a laugh not taking a genuine position. I mean you suggested sending nuclear waste into the sun as a means of disposal with a big grin which means you're not really having a practical discussion. If you want to have a realistic, practical discussion about meeting future energy requirements then lets be practical - if you want to have a laugh then it's irrelevant what you're for or against, we're just having a laugh so sure, lets frack the earth by fracking or nuclear waste :D
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Well I was kinda serious. I do believe that could be a solution for the waste. Whats wrong with chucking it at the sun? I know its expensive but we pay more for less at the moment.

joelus said:
Right, but surly we would rather be safe that sorry? :confused: Since we don't know why would we risk a badly maintained nuclear power plant?
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Thats like saying we shouldnt fly planes, because the russians built a ****ty plane that crashed once. We must just make sure its not badly BUILT and MAINTAINED. If history is anything to go buy, tomorrows government will be better than yesterdays government (metaphorically speaking).
 
Naks said:
You are thinking of old tech. Have a look at the promising Liquid Thorium nuclear designs, much cleaner, much safer, and much cheaper than traditional Uranium-based fission plants
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No, I'm not thinking of old tech at all. I'm thinking of current tech. You are thinking of future tech which may or may not be practical, realistic, cheap and safe. Currently, Liquid Thorium nuclear power plants are theoretical, face many challenges to becoming practical - they are still infants. They are not a practical solution, right now. Although some private companies are researching development I don't know of any countries investing in them as a possible source of energy.
 
ghoti said:
Despite what you think. South Africans are not idiots. We had nukes before most countries had nuclear reactors. We are not new to the atom.
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Had being the key word there. I understand they were dismantled because of that no nukes treaty but those nukes were actually built in an age where Eskom ran with profit and incompetence was not a option. I'm not saying SA are idiots, I'm saying the people in charge are. Those people who got there because of their buddies and know nothing about the consequences of their actions. That's why SA cannot go nuclear.
 
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ghoti said:
Well I was kinda serious. I do believe that could be a solution for the waste. Whats wrong with chucking it at the sun? I know its expensive but we pay more for less at the moment.


Thats like saying we shouldnt fly planes, because the russians built a ****ty plane that crashed once. We must just make sure its not badly BUILT and MAINTAINED. If history is anything to go buy, tomorrows government will be better than yesterdays government (metaphorically speaking).
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Really, you want to compare the contamination of the entire planet with radioactive dust to a plane crash?
Do you really think we're taking the same risk creating tons of nuclear waste that lasts thousands of years as we are flying a plane?

Even if we do make sure its not badly BUILT and MAINTAINED we don't know what our children and grandchildren will be like, or what the world they live in will be like. Or our great great grand children for that matter. If history is anything to go by, civilizations rise and fall and while we might be at the height of technological prowess at present in the future we might be just another ancient civilisation who left a bunch of nuclear waste lying around.

What's wrong with chucking it at the sun is that it's not currently possible to do so safely... All it takes is one accident, so lets start by chucking non-radioactive stuff at the sun until we get it right - once that's been achieved we can consider it as a means of nuclear waste disposal. Right now it's just fantasy and impractical. Again, it's a "Let's create the waste now and figure out how to deal with it later" scenario. An attitude that's responsible for much of the current pollution problems we have. Now we're trying to figure out how to deal with our pollution, when the worlds already polluted :rolleyes:
 
joelus said:
What's wrong with chucking it at the sun is that it's not currently possible to do so safely... All it takes is one accident, so lets start by chucking non-radioactive stuff at the sun until we get it right - once that's been achieved we can consider it as a means of nuclear waste disposal. Right now it's just fantasy and impractical. Again, it's a "Let's create the waste now and figure out how to deal with it later" scenario. An attitude that's responsible for much of the current pollution problems we have. Now we're trying to figure out how to deal with our pollution, when the worlds already polluted :rolleyes:
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How can you not get it right? Point it at the sun and gooi. Gravity will do the rest.
 
ChocolateBadger said:
Had being the key word there. I understand they were dismantled because of that no nukes treaty but those nukes were actually built in an age where Eskom ran with profit and incompetence was not a option. I'm not saying SA are idiots, I'm saying the people in charge are. Those people who got there because of their buddies and know nothing about the consequences of their actions. That's why SA cannot go nuclear.
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We are nuclear...
 
ghoti said:
Whats wrong with chucking it at the sun? I know its expensive but we pay more for less at the moment.
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Sure it would be VERY expensive and cost all life earth (and possibly any unknown life forms in our solar system). Why would you want to effectively kill our star?
 
Cadavre777 said:
Sure it would be VERY expensive and cost all life earth (and possibly any unknown life forms in our solar system). Why would you want to effectively kill our star?
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Please learn physics before you make those sort of comments. Dropping waste of any sort into the sun, or any star, won't "kill" it.
 
joelus said:
Right now you want to take the attitude of "let's create the nuclear waste now and figure out how to deal with it later" which is not an option I'm willing to support.
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We've been doing that for the last half century and it hasn't killed anyone yet, and there's no reason to believe it will.
 
The_Assimilator said:
Please learn physics before you make those sort of comments. Dropping waste of any sort into the sun, or any star, won't "kill" it.
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Ok Keyboard Cowboy, prove me wrong. Since you have a Doctorate in Absolutely-Everything+a bag of chips, let's hear what you have to say....
 
Cadavre777 said:
Ok Keyboard Cowboy, prove me wrong. Since you have a Doctorate in Absolutely-Everything+a bag of chips, let's hear what you have to say....
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How 'bout you learn2google? Believe me, it doesn't require a doctorate, just basic typing and reading comprehension skills.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-04/why-not-just-dispose-nuclear-waste-sun

Popular Science said:
The sun is a constant nuclear reaction that’s about 330,000 times as massive as Earth; it could swallow the tens of thousands of tons of spent nuclear rods as easily as a forest fire consumes a drop of gasoline.
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The_Assimilator said:
We've been doing that for the last half century and it hasn't killed anyone yet, and there's no reason to believe it will.
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We still haven't dealt with it long term (we only have short term solutions) and a lot can happen in 2000 years (or more) which is how long the waste is going to be around for...
 
The_Assimilator said:
Please learn physics before you make those sort of comments. Dropping waste of any sort into the sun, or any star, won't "kill" it.
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Technically, we don't know what will happen. Science is based in experimentation and since it's an experiment we've never done we don't really know. I agree though it's unlikely given our current understanding of the sun...
 
joelus said:
Technically, we don't know what will happen. Science is based in experimentation and since it's an experiment we've never done we don't really know. I agree though it's unlikely given our current understanding of the sun...
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That's like arguing that we shouldn't piss in the ocean just in case something terrible happens. We know it won't - but just in case...
 
DJ... said:
That's like arguing that we shouldn't piss in the ocean just in case something terrible happens. We know it won't - but just in case...
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No it's not the same at all. Millions of people have pissed in the ocean, we know from experience that nothing terrible happens. It's been scientifically established through experimentation that nothing terrible happens if you piss in the ocean.

On the other hand, nobody has ever dropped nuclear waste into the sun, we don't know from experience what would happen.
It has not been scientifically established through experimentation that nothing terrible happens if you drop nuclear waste into the sun.

It's not the same at all.
I agree though it's unlikely that anything terrible would happen given our current understanding of the sun, but it has not been established though experimentation...
 
joelus said:
No it's not the same at all. Millions of people have pissed in the ocean, we know from experience that nothing terrible happens. It's been scientifically established through experimentation that nothing terrible happens if you piss in the ocean.

On the other hand, nobody has ever dropped nuclear waste into the sun, we don't know from experience what would happen.
It has not been scientifically established through experimentation that nothing terrible happens if you drop nuclear waste into the sun.

It's not the same at all.
I agree though it's unlikely that anything terrible would happen given our current understanding of the sun, but it has not been established though experimentation...
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Had nobody ever pissed in the ocean, would you be so vehement against pissing in the ocean? It was quite clearly hypothetical in every sense...
 
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