Freelance work and difficult clients?

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MisterBigglesworth

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I started helping out a colleague with a website they wanted a while back. They have since left the company on their own venture, but over the last year or 2, I have helped them still and with new projects (small stuff really). They are now becoming VERY difficult...expecting me to do work for them during work hours, sending emails into the early hours of the morning then moaning when its not done the next day.

My other clients I do freelance work for, having no issues and all fine there - it seems like this person is now getting so busy...they actually need someone who does this kind of thing full time, and can give them the support when they want it. I simply cant, and after hours due to personal commitments...I might not even get a chance to get freelance work done some nights.

So ja...I always make this clear to friends and potential clients and have never had an issue until now. I explained it all again...how I work after hours etc, only have set times to do work and I might not even be able to work some nights, how something that can take a full 9 hour day to complete will take me up to a week to do due to it being done after hours etc. Still, get a stroppy reply...you committed to it, now do it. Yeah...easy said than done when you have to deal with life after hours and other clients/projects. :erm:

Anyway, it has become clear my freelance hours / arrangement are no longer working for this client and everyone is now getting very frustrated with one another, no solution between us seems possible. I have suggested they need a non-freelance person (full time developer) so they can be taken care of accordingly...again, reply I got was to just make the website updates today and let them know when done. Everything is always urgent.

I'm worried I do them, and they will not pay as I have already put in 4 hours of which I doubt I will get paid for if I say I can no longer do work for them. I enjoyed the work, but now the enjoyment factor in working with them is gone and this just feels like a chore. The whole reason I started freelance was to help family & friends (ppl always want help as soon as they know what you do) and it was a little extra cash, and mostly I enjoyed the variety of the projects people needed help with.

How do you freelance guys deal with this kind of stuff? I feel like sending a mail saying, sorry...I am clearly not meeting your needs so can no longer work on projects for you going forward. :confused:
 
sp4ceman said:
your 4 hours is gone. you prolly won't get paid. any after hours work I do is extra work I both choose to do and enjoy doing. if either of those criteria are not met i drop the work immediately.
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Yeah, know I wont get that back...but there is no enjoyment at all anymore. I fear I put in more hours, they might just say thanks...we moving on...and then its a real waste. Thinking to just cut my losses and move on...sad thing is this person use to be such a nice individual, and now the way I have seen them treat me and their employees (seen emails I was CC'd in). Really not keen to carry on work with them...
 
Finish what you started then don't accept any further work. Don't let it end on a bad note- the 4 or more hours it'll take to just get this done you could absorb I'm sure? Did you quote for the work upfront? If quote was for xyz hours or abc task and you deliver, they should pay...

When it feels like a chore, you'll start preferring personal/family time over getting the work done. It's time to cut them loose either way.
 
CrazyFig said:
Yeah, know I wont get that back...but there is no enjoyment at all anymore. I fear I put in more hours, they might just say thanks...we moving on...and then its a real waste. Thinking to just cut my losses and move on...sad thing is this person use to be such a nice individual, and now the way I have seen them treat me and their employees (seen emails I was CC'd in). Really not keen to carry on work with them...
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Then don't be sad since you're not the one acting in an unprofessional manner since you had your Ts & Cs explained upfront. Cut out the "fat" and work with other people more suited to your circumstances.

Also, I agree with sp4ceman. I need to use that criteria more myself before I take on projects where I end up being over worked and regret it.
 
Budza said:
Finish what you started then don't accept any further work. Don't let it end on a bad note- the 4 or more hours it'll take to just get this done you could absorb I'm sure? Did you quote for the work upfront? If quote was for xyz hours or abc task and you deliver, they should pay...

When it feels like a chore, you'll start preferring personal/family time over getting the work done. It's time to cut them loose either way.
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I didn't even quote, I normally do the work then bill end of month for hours worked. Had quite a casual relationship compared to my other payment arrangements (requiring deposit upfront etc). Things have changed, so am concerned now about being done over should I start the next updates they want and finish them. Have this feeling they wont pay end of the month should I carry on. So ja...nothing has been started as I haven't responded to the latest updates they now want me to make.

It put me in such a bad mood last night, even my wife commented I seem like I'm somewhere else, and my son picked up on it too (hate it when that happens). Don't like being like this...

sp4ceman said:
so don't. that's the whole point of freelancing. you're not tied to them give them their code, say later and next time they ask you to do something say no
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All stuff done, loaded onto their site. Just haven't done the latest updates they want, which where sent to me early this morning. So nothing "outstanding", as its a more pay as you go arrangement.

shauntir said:
Then don't be sad since you're not the one acting in an unprofessional manner since you had your Ts & Cs explained upfront. Cut out the "fat" and work with other people more suited to your circumstances.

Also, I agree with sp4ceman. I need to use that criteria more myself before I take on projects where I end up being over worked and regret it.
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Yeah, agreed...think it is time to move on...

Thanks all for your opinions and replies ;)
 
Hmm when it starts effecting you and family is it worth 4 hours ? Is it worth all the unpleasantness and stress? Make a referral enjoy some comm on it or outsource the work and deliver what the client needs. If you find a reliable outsource partner you can monitor work etc in the evenings while the work gets done? Drop me a pm if you wanna chat
 
It is always good to upfront have a clear documented written agreement of what the expectation and duration of the arrangement is. And I am not talking about lengthy legal contracts. Just a one pager outlining how things will work. What communication channels will be used, when are you available, how much time you have available per week and payment arrangements, etc. And if things change down the line you can always amend this one pager. But at least it is clear to both parties what is expected of each other.
 
Hmm, just got a reply. They fine with what I suggested, and asked me to send through some details of the companies that could help them on a full time basis. But, they want me to do these last updates quick they sent early this AM. Looked them over, and will prob take about an hour to do. No idea if they will be good on payment....but hey, rather end off on a good note and just do these last updates and hope I get paid? Think I will be the better person and just do them, then I can have peace of mind once they move on.
 
there is no piece of work that takes an hour.

do the work.
deploy the work (hopefully to staging/dev/testing)
test the work/sign off
get feedback
possibly start at step 1.
deploy live.
 
_kabal_ said:
there is no piece of work that takes an hour.

do the work.
deploy the work (hopefully to staging/dev/testing)
test the work/sign off
get feedback
possibly start at step 1.
deploy live.
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Huh? One of my clients often sends through requests that get completed in 15 mins.
It all depends on what the work is. Sometimes it goes to staging for testing and approval, sometimes it is deployed straight to live. Again - depends on what it is.

Anyway, finish the last bit of work and move on OP.
 
Echo all the good advice here.

Finish the last bit and end the relationship with your professionalism intact.

Don't fall into the same trap again.

After too many years of being taken advantage of in this manner, I finally told a friend of a friend, "sorry, I don't do this stuff anymore " - my doorway has not been darkened since (6 months ) and good riddance.
 
skimread said:
The point of freelance is you can choose your clients
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+1!

The moment you start off with freelancing or even your own fulltime business, the point is that you can choose your own clients. If you have enough work let them go. Tell them to get another freelancer or employ someone else. I was in a same position with a client a week ago. I waited 9 months for information, but once he provided it, he demanded the service to be rendered in 5 days. I refunded him his money and told him to get someone else.

Why place pressure on yourself?
 
It's crucial to have some kind of contract drawn up prior to the beginning of work. I always believe that the client should know upfront how much it's gonna cost them. What's stopping abl developer from lying about the hours worked and charging the client more? If you go over the hours, you can't change your client extra because you didn't complete the work in the time frame you promised them. Regarding payments, I always find it better to host the work I do for them on my own server, so that I am in control. If they don't pay, they don't get their stuff or I will take it off the server. Regarding clients, I wan to get away from having to liaise directly with them. Clients in general are a massive pain in the @ss. Now and then you'll get a nice one but in general, they make life a living hell.
 
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