General Plasma & LCD discussions

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Basically the 1080i method is, to use the 2 interlaced frames, to build a full 1080p image. When the picture is moving, it changes from one frame to the next. This means you cannot built a complete 1080p image from the two frames, as they are different. Some information needs to be dropped and line doubling is used to fill in the missing info. This effectively drops the resolution to 540 x 1080.
 
Quantum Theory said:
Basically the 1080i method is, to use the 2 interlaced frames, to build a full 1080p image. When the picture is moving, it changes from one frame to the next. This means you cannot built a complete 1080p image from the two frames, as they are different. Some information needs to be dropped and line doubling is used to fill in the missing info. This effectively drops the resolution to 540 x 1080.
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Are you a teacher by any chance;)

That was well explained, thank you. So basically every other line is refreshed alternatively where as the 1080P it's the whole thing?
 
Juggy said:
Are you a teacher by any chance;)

That was well explained, thank you. So basically every other line is refreshed alternatively where as the 1080P it's the whole thing?
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Yes. Now you can see how this becomes a problem when the image is moving. The newest frame and the previous differs, which causes something like this:

dolphin-interlaced.jpg


Now the second last frame's lines has to be dropped and the last frame's lines doubled. This causes the lines to drop to 540.

So yes, 1080i can be 1080 lines when the image is static, but mostly it is not 1080 lines.
 
PostmanPot said:
My guess is you weren't happy because of the shop lighting. Gives an inaccurate representation of LCD vs plasma. Your TV room has much softer ambient lighting.

LCDs were also probably on torch mode.

I'm guessing you weren't viewing at correct viewing distance either.

Plasma is MUCH better for SD, it's a fact. Also there shouldn't be much difference at HD stuff, plasma will still have the edge at the lower end of the market in terms of better colours and blacks.

Anyway, glad you're happy.
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Without starting another war - why is that every time someone says a plasma is not mind blowing, there are just millions of excuses from lighting, to modes set, to salespeople, to sales commission, to feeds, to cables uses etc?

Do you really find it that difficult to believe that someone could prefer an LCD/LED over a plasma?
 
Dolby said:
Without starting another war - why is that every time someone says a plasma is not mind blowing, there are just millions of excuses from lighting, to modes set, to salespeople, to sales commission, to feeds, to cables uses etc?

Do you really find it that difficult to believe that someone could prefer an LCD/LED over a plasma?
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You are asking a much broader question. Compare a R5,000 plasma to a R10,000+ LCD at SD and yes, maybe the LCD will be as good/better.

Not expecting them to think plasma is mind blowing at the entry to the market, however at SD it is a lot better than LCD. (Remember, you aren't into SD/TV (and sport) so it wouldn't concern you all that much.)

Lastly, it's a fact that plasma looks grainy up close where LCD looks crisper, and that plasma appears dimmer in shops with shop lighting which throws people off, where the LCDs are usually set to torch mode. Isles are not 2.5+m apart from each other so one can get correct viewing distance. Do you disagree with these points? Everyone else mentions them, not sure why I'm being singled out.
 
The poster didn't go into detail about what exactly what the issue ... he just said he preferred X over Y *shrug*
 
Dolby said:
The poster didn't go into detail about what exactly what the issue ... he just said he preferred X over Y *shrug*
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He went to Makro: A commonplace for bright lights, brights screens, as well as close viewing distances - something which everyone agrees that plasma fails at because it looks grainier than LCD.

All plasma owners here say that SD and HD looks better on entry plasma compared to entry level LCD (that's why they got them). Who should I believe? *shrugs*
 
PostmanPot said:
He went to Makro: A commonplace for bright lights, brights screens, as well as close viewing distances - something which everyone agrees that plasma fails at because it looks grainier than LCD.

All plasma owners here say that SD and HD looks better on entry plasma compared to entry level LCD (that's why they got them). Who should I believe? *shrugs*
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ok :)
 
Dolby said:
The poster didn't go into detail about what exactly what the issue ... he just said he preferred X over Y *shrug*
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No issue really, based on the heated discussions in this forum, I was excepting dramatic/noticable differences between the various technology's virtues. To a non-connoisseur like me, they were barely noticable. My observations;

- Samsung 42' Plamsa vs 40' LCD SD viewing (off HDPVR) very similar, Plasma has an ever so slight edge on colour, but not enough to count
- Samsung 42' Plamsa vs 40' LCD HD viewing, better on LCD, can notice down-scaling to 1024 on Plasma
- Samsung 42' Plamsa vs 40' LCD Bluray viewing, much, much better on LCD, native 1920 vs down-scaled 1024 is seriously noticable
- Samsung 40' LCD vs Sony 40' 100Hz LED BE3, yes the Sony has a slight edge with motion, but 5% improvement vs 40%+ higher price really not worth it

So in the end I went with best price/benefit unit (as well as the bundle on special), for me that being the 40' Samsung 5 series LCD (LA40C530).
 
Roman4604 said:
No issue really, based on the heated discussions in this forum, I was excepting dramatic/noticable differences between the various technology's virtues. To a non-connoisseur like me, they were barely noticable. My observations;

- Samsung 42' Plamsa vs 40' LCD SD viewing (off HDPVR) very similar, Plasma has an ever so slight edge on colour, but not enough to count
- Samsung 42' Plamsa vs 40' LCD HD viewing, better on LCD, can notice down-scaling to 1024 on Plasma
- Samsung 42' Plamsa vs 40' LCD Bluray viewing, much, much better on LCD, native 1920 vs down-scaled 1024 is seriously noticable
- Samsung 40' LCD vs Sony 40' 100Hz LED BE3, yes the Sony has a slight edge with motion, but 5% improvement vs 40%+ higher price really not worth it

So in the end I went with best price/benefit unit (as well as the bundle on special), for me that being the 40' Samsung 5 series LCD (LA40C530).
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Wow I am not sure how you thought the 40C530 was better than the plasma :confused:

I have the 40C530 and can without a shadow of a doubt say that my Samsung plasma walks all over it.
 
Grimspoon said:
Wow I am not sure how you thought the 40C530 was better than the plasma :confused:

I have the 40C530 and can without a shadow of a doubt say that my Samsung plasma walks all over it.
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I am surprised too. I also have a 40c530 and sport, especially tennis and golf, is terrible.
 
Grimspoon said:
Wow I am not sure how you thought the 40C530 was better than the plasma :confused:

I have the 40C530 and can without a shadow of a doubt say that my Samsung plasma walks all over it.
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Yip. We tried to analyse it. Basically I put it down to comparison in a "mass" store with bad lighting and close viewing distances.
 
PostmanPot said:
Not sure about gifs, but Grim has the HD PVR. Grim had a SD decoder before on his plasma/40C4x0.
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Well my c530 is running off an HDPVR2P via HDMI with the output locked at 720p on the decoder.

Vast majority of SD content looks very good, I have seen some arb stuff (e.g. some matches on SS8) that looks bad/pixelated due to poor source content quality.

BTW can those with both describe what exactly is superior on the Plamsa when watching the same DSTV SD content from the same input source?
 
Roman4604 said:
Well my c530 is running off an HDPVR2P via HDMI with the output locked at 720p on the decoder.

Vast majority of SD content looks very good, I have seen some arb stuff (e.g. some matches on SS8) that looks bad/pixelated due to poor source content quality.

BTW can those with both describe what exactly is superior on the Plamsa when watching the same DSTV SD content from the same input source?
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I honestly think you should go back to the store (or rather go to a smaller, less brightly lit store?) and look closer (from further ;)) at your LCD vs a 42" plasma on the same feed/SD/sport. Play around with the settings as well. It's a fact that plasma is superior for SD, and this is especially true at the lower end of the market (LCD is excellent at SD/sport when you spend more). Plasma = less blocky/pixelated, better motion, better colours/blacks.

I have seen your LCD displaying SD/sport over HDMI and it really isn't that bad - due to the signal going over HDMI. If I didn't know about plasma I'd be happy with it. But when I compare it to my 42" plasma back home there is no contest - better SD/sport quality, bigger size, cheaper price, better at everything except connecting to PC to do work on (excess static images = image retention/burn-in).
 
PostmanPot said:
Plasma = less blocky/pixelated, better motion, better colours/blacks.
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Maybe, but my point has been to what degree. To me the viewing experience wasn't radically better, certainly not enough to forgo full HD for the Plasma's limited 1024x768 res e.g. DSTV HD channels fantastic at 720p & Bluray/games off PS3 simply awesome at 1080p.
 
Roman4604 said:
Maybe, but my point has been to what degree. To me the viewing experience wasn't radically better, certainly not enough to forgo full HD for the Plasma's limited 1024x768 res e.g. DSTV HD channels fantastic at 720p & Bluray/games off PS3 simply awesome at 1080p.
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For people who mainly watch <720p and sport, enough degree to win them over, especially for majority SD content. But then they also have the option of 50" full HD plasma for R9,000. :)

For displaying SD and sport, there is no question plasma is radically better (talking about entry level).

How many of your games/Blu-rays are full HD? ;)
 
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