Generator vs backup battery price comparison

[jetlee]

Nah your numbers are fine based on the article,the article didn't consider that 10K generator can run an entire house,those baby kits they list for comparison are not really capable of that
It's a bit like comparing a Car to a powered-moped

Sure, your response said that saying the cost of fuel was a large part of the equation was "disingenuous", I dont agree, I think its a very large part of the equation, unless I am again missing something ..

 

[BuckRogers]

You can power a whole suburb with a 6500kva generator
You obviously meant 6.5

Yes, well spotted

 

[PsyWulf]

Sure, your response said that saying the cost of fuel was a large part of the equation was "disingenuous", I dont agree, I think its a very large part of the equation, unless I am again missing something ..

You disagreeing when we're at a grapes to watermelons comparison here is disingenuous
You need to adjust the comparisons to get apples to apples.
Either you go with running something small,small UPS up to small Inverter vs Small Genny ( 800-1000w ) and significantly less fuel costs
or you compare a 5000w+ with it's comparable battery backup ( ~R65k-180k )

 

[zeb]

Nah your numbers are fine based on the article,the article didn't consider that 10K generator can run an entire house,those baby kits they list for comparison are not really capable of that
It's a bit like comparing a Car to a powered-moped

No R10k generator can run an entire house. You'll spend R50k+ for something with a decent quality AVR, but don't put your trust in a cheap generator with fluctuating voltages.

 

[Lupus]

No R10k generator can run an entire house. You'll spend R50k+ for something with a decent quality AVR, but don't put your trust in a cheap generator with fluctuating voltages.

Actually a 10k generator can run an entire house, not everyone uses 60units a day of electricity.
In fact with all my lights on it's only 170w, with all my TVs on + xboxes and stuff I'm still just over 1kw, if I turn on only the lights we use it would be 850 or so, that's also with all TVs on.

 

[PsyWulf]

No R10k generator can run an entire house. You'll spend R50k+ for something with a decent quality AVR, but don't put your trust in a cheap generator with fluctuating voltages.

If you're gonna sweat semantics you'd best provide full examples of a test-case
Average home with a 1-2k draw will barely make a 5000w wobble

 

[zeb]

Actually a 10k generator can run an entire house, not everyone uses 60units a day of electricity.
In fact with all my lights on it's only 170w, with all my TVs on + xboxes and stuff I'm still just over 1kw, if I turn on only the lights we use it would be 850 or so, that's also with all TVs on.

Do you have the generator connected to the DB?

I should add, the words entire house to me implies all electronics in the house. Fridges, freezers and geysers included if they're electric.

 

[Lupus]

Do you have the generator connected to the DB?

I should add, the words entire house to me implies all electronics in the house. Fridges, freezers and geysers included if they're electric.

No but I've got a 5kva inverter setup for the entire house and I know plenty of people who run 6.5kva or 7.5kva generators for all the things you've listed and those cost R10k or slightly over

MAC AFRIC 7.5 kVA (6.2 KW) Standby Petrol Generator (with T.F.V meter) | Adendorff Machinery Mart

A petrol-powered electricity generator. A good solid size to provide backup power to an average-sized household. All MAC-AFRIC power generators carry a badge of surplus quality assurance. A machine that can be relied on, MAC-AFRIC holds no equal. Sourced from the best generator supplier worldwide.

www.adendorff.co.za

My little 2.8kva will cover the house as well besides the geyser, but for load shedding why? Why?

 

[zeb]

If you're gonna sweat semantics you'd best provide full examples of a test-case
Average home with a 1-2k draw will barely make a 5000w wobble

I think your definitions of entire house is different than mine. For me it means you're living the same as you would if electricity was on.

 

[Lupus]

I think your definitions of entire house is different than mine. For me it means you're living the same as you would if electricity was on.

With a 10k generator that would be the case? I mean what do you want to run a sweatshop during load shedding?

 

[Danie_V]

Not using a generator for long periods is also an issue, and not mentioned in the article is the air pollution aspects that need to be looked at, as these exhausts do not have catalytic converters and the sophistication that some cars have. Heaven knows what all the diesel generators across a city spew out when load shedding starts as well... Batteries are pretty costly yes, but working well for me for last 3 years, and I suppose the added advantage is, I'm using a good 7 or so hours of stored sunshine every evening, so that adds up over time to help offset that cost.

 

[jetlee]

You disagreeing when we're at a grapes to watermelons comparison here is disingenuous
You need to adjust the comparisons to get apples to apples.
Either you go with running something small,small UPS up to small Inverter vs Small Genny ( 800-1000w ) and significantly less fuel costs
or you compare a 5000w+ with it's comparable battery backup ( ~R65k-180k )

OK, I was referencing the article, which compares 2kw generators to 1kw -> 3kw inverters with battery backup. In the article, the trolley is a 3kw inverter at 17k, which provides a "decent" comparison to at least the 2kw mac africa inverter with auto start (5k)

In that example, load shedding for a week equates to nearly a third of the cost of the generator (a decent thing to have to consider I'd say) and when you compare it to the cost difference between generator and battery, the 12k difference can be saved in roughly 68 days of loadshedding at stage whatever is equivalent to 3 sheds a day

A 5kw Axpert + 5kwh Lithium is about 35k, so I think calling out a 5kw system at 180k is also a bit disingenuous. Unless of course you would like to use actual examples for comparison so I can understand what you mean

Obviously all of this does not take into account the actual inconvenience and opportunity comparisons like having to actually buy fuel (lass) and transport fuel (lass) and noise (annoying) and smell (annoying), vs silent, no smell, no blip when power cuts and the opportunity to spend anything from 1k to 10k to have a few panels that will actually save you on your electricity bill for the next 20 years if you so choose

 

[zeb]

With a 10k generator that would be the case? I mean what do you want to run a sweatshop during load shedding?

Home office, washing, drying, ironing and keeping the meat and beer cold for the braai.
If you have a power outage for 2 to 3 days a 10k genny will not be sufficient imho.

 

[BuckRogers]

I think your definitions of entire house is different than mine. For me it means you're living the same as you would if electricity was on.

With my current setup this is the case.
Start generator, flip change over and thing are back to normal. You are however mindful that load adds to fuel consumption, so while you use things as normal, you do postpone running things that can wait for eskom, like starting the dish washer for instance.

 

[Lupus]

Home office, washing, drying, ironing and keeping the meat and beer cold for the braai.
If you have a power outage for 2 to 3 days a 10k genny will not be sufficient imho.

Actually it would be, how much power do you think that all uses? Also for a couple of days outages you cut back a few things, like tumble dryers, you can dry clothes in the sun like a lot of people do.
But just so you're aware.
65" TV with Xbox Series X + JBL 9.1 soundbar 450w
58" TV with Xbox One X + Sony HTX8500 soundbar 170W
Double door 600l fridge freezer combo on average 30 to 40w, when compressor kicks in 270w
Microwave 1600w on high
Kettle 1900w for about a minute
My office with PC (Ryzen 5 5600, 32GB RAM, 2060 super, 3 SSD) + 32" Monitor, +5.1 Logitech speakers and sundries - just under 400w under gaming load.
All 40 of my LED lights on at the same time 170w
Air fryer - 1400w for about 40m
Hisense top loader washing machine cold cycle - 320w

Now of course you don't run the high wattage items like the kettle, microwave or air fryer at the same time.
But all of those I've used at one point or another in combination on my 5kva inverter and at most it hit 4kw out of that, which is 80%
These are 10k generators or roughly what you'd get for 10k

MAC AFRIC 6.3 kVA (5 KW) Standby Petrol Generator | Adendorff Machinery Mart

A well-sized generator that can power the average South African home. Some key features include the integrated wheel design allowing for easier moverability and the fitted AVR which ensures constant voltage supply. Petrol Electric (keyed) start Robust design

www.adendorff.co.za

MAC AFRIC 6.5 kVA (5 KW) Standby Petrol Generator (with T.F.V meter) | Adendorff Machinery Mart

A well-sized generator that can power the average South African home. Made with ease of use in mind, this generator has an integrated wheel and handle design as well as an electric start. Petrol Electric (key) start Compact and Mobile

www.adendorff.co.za

MAC AFRIC 7.5 kVA (6.2 KW) Standby Petrol Generator (with T.F.V meter) | Adendorff Machinery Mart

A petrol-powered electricity generator. A good solid size to provide backup power to an average-sized household. All MAC-AFRIC power generators carry a badge of surplus quality assurance. A machine that can be relied on, MAC-AFRIC holds no equal. Sourced from the best generator supplier worldwide.

www.adendorff.co.za

The 6.2kw one could actually also power a 2 to 3kw geyser if you're careful with the rest of the house.
So please what else would you need to power for an outage?

In fact with my 2.8kva little generator it was sitting at 40% most of the time, though I didn't power a lot of heavy items at the same time.

 

[Cactus]

Home office, washing, drying, ironing and keeping the meat and beer cold for the braai.
If you have a power outage for 2 to 3 days a 10k genny will not be sufficient imho.

Do you leave your lights, toaster, TV, pc, vacuum, washing machine, dryer, iron on all at once?

 

[PsyWulf]

I think your definitions of entire house is different than mine. For me it means you're living the same as you would if electricity was on.

Alright now we're getting somewhere
If we can't adjust any usage on generator we can't do the same for inverter - please quote the cost of a 5kw generator running at 7hours full tilt ,vs 35kwh battery storage backup system for 7hours at 5kw

I'll wait

 

[PsyWulf]

Do you leave your lights, toaster, TV, pc, vacuum, washing machine, dryer, iron on all at once?

Must be,heaven forbid you can't afford fuel or 60KW worth of batteries

 

[jetlee]

Alright now we're getting somewhere
If we can't adjust any usage on generator we can't do the same for inverter - please quote the cost of a 5kw generator running at 7hours full tilt ,vs 35kwh battery storage backup system for 7hours at 5kw

I'll wait

Thats not entirely accurate. You wont require all the storage at once in the same way I doubt that genny will run flat out for 7 hours ..

 

[Lupus]

Thats not entirely accurate. You wont require all the storage at once in the same way I doubt that genny will run flat out for 7 hours ..

You'd be surprised, we've had our next door neighbour run his for 12 hours, due to a massive outage his side had. My little one ran for 10 hours when my sons dojo was using it.