Getting a dedicated server... advice plz.

shogun

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So I'm tired of shared hosting going down with every service provider we host with. It's time to move to a dedicated machine.

I'm purchasing a dedicated machine from Hetzner in Germany, running Windows Server 2008 R2 Standard Edition.

I've so far gathered how I would set up web sites in IIS for specific IP addresses and the DNS stuff. What i'm looking at now, is how to set up email hosting. Do any of you have some recommendations as to what is the best platform for mail hosting. By best, I mean simple to manage (set up new accounts, and backup emails), and can host IMAP email.

I don't need 1/100th of what exchange offers, but will consider that if required. I'm just trying to set up something simple, that's reliable and popular.

Any input appreciated.
 
So I'm tired of shared hosting going down with every service provider we host with. It's time to move to a dedicated machine.

I'm purchasing a dedicated machine from Hetzner in Germany, running Windows Server 2008 R2 Standard Edition.

I've so far gathered how I would set up web sites in IIS for specific IP addresses and the DNS stuff. What i'm looking at now, is how to set up email hosting. Do any of you have some recommendations as to what is the best platform for mail hosting. By best, I mean simple to manage (set up new accounts, and backup emails), and can host IMAP email.

I don't need 1/100th of what exchange offers, but will consider that if required. I'm just trying to set up something simple, that's reliable and popular.

Any input appreciated.

Have a look at mail enable I used them before on a 2003 windows server they really good and very similar to MS exchange server

They have a free version which is really good :) There app sets up the pop3 service as well automatically configured
 
Thanks Byron, i saw them last night... but i'm hoping to use IMAP, so i'd need to go for the Professional edition. I'm also looking at hMailServer and SmarterMail. SmarterMail seems a bit overkill for managing email for just a few ppl.
 
Thanks Byron, i saw them last night... but i'm hoping to use IMAP, so i'd need to go for the Professional edition. I'm also looking at hMailServer and SmarterMail. SmarterMail seems a bit overkill for managing email for just a few ppl.

No Probs Hmail is not bad but I had a small issue with them cant remember though, the best is to try as much as possible and see what works best

I switched all my emails over to a shared hosting package on hetzner but that was before the major increase in bandwidth as that time the allowance was 15 Gig its now 70 Gig a month just point your mail records etc and I was on my way
 
why not hosted gmail for imap access ??

been using it for a year and it has only been down twice for 2 or 3 hours..
 
No Probs Hmail is not bad but I had a small issue with them cant remember though, the best is to try as much as possible and see what works best

I switched all my emails over to a shared hosting package on hetzner but that was before the major increase in bandwidth as that time the allowance was 15 Gig its now 70 Gig a month just point your mail records etc and I was on my way

I've just ordered my server from Hetzner Germany... 2TB limit before throttling or paying a paltry fee for another 2TB. 70GB cap won't cut it unfortunately. I'm officially over shared hosting... for anything. From now on it's dedicated machines or nothing. It means a little learning, but then no one can do something stupid on the box and take it down (except me). We sat without email for 2 days with Afrihost's stuff up last week and lost orders. I won't go through that again.

@greggpb: Internally, I struggle with the concept of using gmail for email hosting. I know you can hook it up to you domain etc etc... but i'm just not happy doing that. Company data must stay on company property. Private email is another story. Thanks for the suggestion though.
 
So why are you setting up everything manually, in IIS and email ect? Its A LOT of micro managing. In the end its much easier to install hosting control panel software. I know the best ones costs money, but there are a few ok free ones out there.

For example, check out websitepanel: http://www.websitepanel.net/ (I believe its open source? Though I haven't used it myself)
Here is a list of software it works with: http://www.websitepanel.net/works-with

Hosting Control Panel is the way forward, its not just for lazy people, its also there for people who need to automate things, so they can spend their time on more important things, like worry about securing their server, or you know dealing with people ect. You really really don't wanna do all the hard work yourself. This control panel can manage domains, automatically set up the DNS for you, email accounts ect.

Regards,
I hope this give you some insight on how to do things a little bit easier :)
Ps. there is a list of email servers it support managing for you.
 
Hi Shogun,

Take a look at SmarterMail's products. They're cost effective, simple to manage, work well and most Windows control panels (Such as Helm etc) have support for it.
www.smartertools.com
 
So why are you setting up everything manually, in IIS and email ect? Its A LOT of micro managing. In the end its much easier to install hosting control panel software. I know the best ones costs money, but there are a few ok free ones out there.

For example, check out websitepanel: http://www.websitepanel.net/ (I believe its open source? Though I haven't used it myself)
Here is a list of software it works with: http://www.websitepanel.net/works-with

Hosting Control Panel is the way forward, its not just for lazy people, its also there for people who need to automate things, so they can spend their time on more important things, like worry about securing their server, or you know dealing with people ect. You really really don't wanna do all the hard work yourself. This control panel can manage domains, automatically set up the DNS for you, email accounts ect.

Regards,
I hope this give you some insight on how to do things a little bit easier :)
Ps. there is a list of email servers it support managing for you.

Hey, thanks for the post. I don't know much about panels, and thought they would only be useful if I was reselling hosting accounts etc. I looked at Plesk originally (Hetzner offers it pre-installed), but from what i've read, it's super easy to poke holes in, and can be a security nightmare if you don't know what you're doing.

I just took a look at WebsitePanel now, and it looks pretty neat. I'd never heard of it before, thanks. I have a lot to learn about panels though. I was thinking of just setting up a simple mail server, and doing all the website stuff in IIS, as it's only my stuff that will go on the server, so it's a little overkill to install a website panel. It may just prove useful in the long run though for separating different projects for different clients.

@server-admins.net: I think you missed the part where I said I was looking at smarter mail already:P
 
Well in that case, at least start with mail software that is supported by some of the hosting control panels, then at least when you do move over to a hosting control panel, there would be some way to import your current settings and content into the software that the control panel support.
 
Well in that case, at least start with mail software that is supported by some of the hosting control panels, then at least when you do move over to a hosting control panel, there would be some way to import your current settings and content into the software that the control panel support.

Good point. I see that if I had to go down the WebsitePanel route, hMailServer is a supported product. I think i'll start there. Thanks Tinuva. Solid advice.
 
Thought i'd post an update here. For anyone doubting the service of offshore hosting providers... Hetzner Germany is in a league of their own. I had my server set up yesterday with a 2-port RAID controller. Then late last night I realised that they offered software RAID, and that there was no need for me to take on the extra monthly expense of a hardware RAID controller when I know that the traffic is unlikely to warrant it. I was under the impression when I ordered it that it was the only way to get RAID set up on the machine.

I emailed them this morning, and they said they could take it out. I sent a formal request through their control panel and within minutes they whipped the card out and re-installed windows (wasn't strictly necessary, but I asked them to, so that the OS was also on RAID) and I had my server up again ready to roll in a few hours. They responded to emails within minutes of me sending them and I was left feeling like I was the only client they were dealing with.

Incredible... simply incredible. I am in awe of how efficient these peeps are.
 
I looked at Plesk originally (Hetzner offers it pre-installed), but from what i've read, it's super easy to poke holes in, and can be a security nightmare if you don't know what you're doing.

Care to cite some sources? We have tens of thousands of Plesk machines at work, ranging from version 5 to the current 10, and I'm not aware of any security issues with the panel itself. At least, nothing they haven't addressed promptly. Any security issues you're likely to encounter is likely to be down to:

1. OS Misconfiguration
2. Vulnerabilities in packages shipped with the OS
3. Your code. (most likely, since 99.99% have no clue about security server or application security, even if they think they do) (I'm not suggesting you're not among the 0.01%, btw. I'm just being complete)

In my experience (limited to Linux server) CPanel is no better than Plesk as far as security goes. Worse probably. It installs very old packages from source, which completely defeats the purpose of having a Linux distribution that provides a well tested and stable environment with backported security fixes that doesn't break compatiblity with existing software or introduce new problems.

Outside of that, I don't have a preference either way based on technical reasons. I'm simply more familiar with Plesk, and I can say from experience their support (if you pay for it) is excellent.
 
@shogun, look at using WebsitePanel (formerly known as DotNetPanel) and Enkompass - both free hosting control panels which will make your life much easier.

If you can't afford something like MailEnable ($349 for the Pro edition, with unlimited domains) then you could use something like hMaileServer or something like that.
 
Care to cite some sources? We have tens of thousands of Plesk machines at work, ranging from version 5 to the current 10, and I'm not aware of any security issues with the panel itself. At least, nothing they haven't addressed promptly. Any security issues you're likely to encounter is likely to be down to:

1. OS Misconfiguration
2. Vulnerabilities in packages shipped with the OS
3. Your code. (most likely, since 99.99% have no clue about security server or application security, even if they think they do) (I'm not suggesting you're not among the 0.01%, btw. I'm just being complete)

In my experience (limited to Linux server) CPanel is no better than Plesk as far as security goes. Worse probably. It installs very old packages from source, which completely defeats the purpose of having a Linux distribution that provides a well tested and stable environment with backported security fixes that doesn't break compatiblity with existing software or introduce new problems.

Outside of that, I don't have a preference either way based on technical reasons. I'm simply more familiar with Plesk, and I can say from experience their support (if you pay for it) is excellent.



Wikipedia says so, so it must be true:P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesk
 
@shogun, look at using WebsitePanel (formerly known as DotNetPanel) and Enkompass - both free hosting control panels which will make your life much easier.

If you can't afford something like MailEnable ($349 for the Pro edition, with unlimited domains) then you could use something like hMaileServer or something like that.


Thanks SoftDux.

I've set up hMailServer, and it's working really well. I've decided to stay away from control panels for now as it's really just a small set up. I'll leave that round of learning for when I need to scale up. When I do though, i'll see if I remember this thread. If I do, i'll come and give it an update.

So far i'm loving the new box. I just need to transfer our primary domain away from Afrihost now. Everything went down yesterday morning again.
 
Wikipedia says so, so it must be true:P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plesk

Wow. Just wow. Let me address this:

Attackers routinely attack the Plesk interfaces to obtain root/admin access since Plesk does not enforce strong passwords by default.

True, it doesn't enforce strong passwords for the admin user (although it does for users), but, how is bad passwords getting bruteforced a Plesk vulnerability?

This makes them an easy and lucrative target for malicious users attempting to compromise Internet hosts.

This is misleading. The sites hosted on Plesk servers are the lucrative target. They don't need Plesk to be horribly insecure. Plesk's default vhost configuration actually adds a few protections that I never see used by non-Plesk customers.

[qoute]Plesk also runs many services on external interfaces by default (e.g. mysql), which means that they are generally exploited very quickly by attackers.[citation needed][/quote]

Plesk uses the system MySQL package. If your distro of choice lets MySQL listen on a public interface, then blame the distro. Plesk never changes MySQL settings. Anyway, WTF are you doing hosting without a firewall?

Some users have complained that Plesk is not secure in the sense of multihosting security since all virtual hosts are run under the same Apache user and share the same configuration.[25] However, in Plesk 7.5.6 for Windows and onward, all virtual hosts can run under their own worker process group, secured using their own respective IIS user. In Plesk for Linux, one could use the apache2-mpm-itk (Multi-Processing Module) or the alternative suEXEC+FastCGI+PHP solution - both of which are not directly related to plesk itself.

Apparently *some* users don't know much about Apache. Isn't this how Apache works? If you want individual sites to run as individual users in Apache, suExec and some CGI handler is the way you do it. Which Plesk gives you the option for, btw. Has for a long time now.

Plesk also defaults to port 8443 for HTTPS applications, this clashes with both Microsoft ISA servers and Microsoft Small Business Servers, which disallow non-standard ports for HTTPS.

So now a [1] choosing the pile of dung that is Microsoft ISA, and [2] not knowing how to allow custom ports is somehow Plesk's fault? Running admin panels on non-standard ports is a pretty standard practise, and makes sense if you have only one IP address and want to run an SSL site.

Plesk offers users the possibility to install web applications with just a few mouse clicks using the Application Packaging Standard.[26] On the downside, it's not always possible to upgrade these applications as easily to fix security problems, which might lead to vulnerable servers.

Now, this is true. Updates are a bit slower than getting them from the vendors/projects directly. But, from what I see in my job every day, the average web developer don't know how to set file/directory permissions appropriately, doesn't know you're meant to update your web apps, and will probably break their site if they tried. And this is, again true regardless of weather or not Plesk is being used. The average web developer will stick phpMyAdmin somewhere under his documentroot (/phpMyAdmin typically), (some will even configure it with the root password) use it to set up his site, and then just leave it there. Seriously, most web devs are better off letting Plesk or something else handle updates.

Overall, Plesk itself is pretty tight. In five years and taking care of tens of thousands of Plesk servers, I have yet to see a server getting compromised through Plesk itself. I'm not saying it can't happen, but this shouldn't be keeping you up at night. Your own code is far more likely to be vulnerable.

My one fierce criticism is Plesk's choice of MTA: qmail. It's such a POS. It is riddled with so many problem, its performance is pretty poor, the way it organises the queue is terrible, it cycles through message IDs at a frightening pace, making it pretty hard to find anything in the already terrible logs, it handles DNS really poorly, it has no concept of queue integrity. It may have been the cool new kid on the block in 1995 but compared to even Sendmail, it's a real stinker by today's standards.

Fortunatey (in part due to pressure from us), Parallels now offer you a choice betwen qmail and Postfix. qmail is still the default when you install, but it's fairly easy to switch. There are still some odd things about the way they configure it, but they have been responsive to our bug reports and it's pretty good now.
 
Hi Shogun,

Take a look at SmarterMail's products. They're cost effective, simple to manage, work well and most Windows control panels (Such as Helm etc) have support for it.
www.smartertools.com

I can vouch for Smartermail, very easy to use - and not too heavy on the pocket either.
Another free alternative (but a slight mission to get up and running) is 'James mail' based on the Apache subsystem
 
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