Getting Telkom struck off ProudlySA list

onionpeel · Feb 8, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BTTB
BTW Telkom does have Cell Phone Masts. I live about 300m from a Telkom Exchange and it has many types of aerials, masts and other gadgets over it. And my vodacom cellphone registers it as that exchange.
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Yes, but it is not Telkom's. The base stations are connected via cable (Telkom) and microwave (backup). They also have varying degress of security and a power supply by being there. So it makes sense for a few reasons why they are located on Telkom property. This is common practice. Telkom gets a monthly rental fee for this, just like any other property owner who is renting facilities.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
On the Application Form, their is big warning about the "possible" dangers of these waves on the human body. Although as you and I agree on, is the fact that none of these warnings were ever scientifically proven.And these applications state this too.
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This is a precautionary measure, which is common practice in agreements.
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And another thing aboput cellphones you might not be aware of. Telkom owns 51% of Vodacom.
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I am sorry, but you are incorrect. Telkom owns 50% of Vodacom. Yes, 1% does make a big difference in this case[

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BTTB · Feb 8, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">90% of people are the moer in with Telkom<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Perhaps more. But a good estimate I reckon. The few people that perhaps dont mind might be public that are more worried that they have a dialling tone and can make normal calls. I wonder if those people might be concerned about the high call charges. Considering that in some parts of the world local calls are free. Which should of happened here too as the Telkom Infrastructure is in place and paid for by us and we do pay a service charge in case anything breaks.

BTTB · Feb 8, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Yes, but it is not Telkom's. The base stations are connected via cable (Telkom) and microwave (backup). They also have varying degress of security and a power supply by being there. So it makes sense for a few reasons why they are located on Telkom property. This is common practice. Telkom gets a monthly rental fee for this, just like any other property owner who is renting facilities.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You seem to know a helluva lot about Telkom Exchanges. What do you do for a living. Tomorrow when I drive past the exchange Im going to ask the techie guys their what all the mast and antennas are used for so I can clear this up.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I am sorry, but you are incorrect. Telkom owns 50% of Vodacom. Yes, 1% does make a big difference in this case<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Thanks for clearing that up. I suppose this is one of reasons why telkoms shares are now above R70. Considering Vodacom have now 10 million members, this should bring in a hefty chunk of change.

Ok, now lets move on and give Mad help in his quest which I think is more relevant as you said.

Karnaugh · Feb 8, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Erm. I did say it has not been scientifically proven. Did you read what I said. BTW Telkom does have Cell Phone Masts. I live about 300m from a Telkom Exchange and it has many types of aerials, masts and other gadgets over it. And my vodacom cellphone registers it as that exchange.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Um, yes I did read what you said, and I am saying that it *has* been proven that cell phone masts are *not* harmful in any way to the human body.

As for the other "gadgets" you are referring to the microwave equipment which is indeed *very* harmful if you were to somehow stand *precisely* in the very direct beam of RF energy. So if you are about 300M tall and happen to stand in front of one then I'm sure microwave radiation is the least of your troubles actually.

Focus on Telkom and ADSL, don't try and argue environmental issues as there is already too much legislation that keeps that in check.

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"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

MaD · Feb 8, 2004

OK I think what we should also do is get into contact with Telkom technicians and ask them to help out. They will know about any unfair labour practices or odd goings-on within Telkom and I'm sure most of them will not hesitate to spill the beans. If they wish to remain anonymous, so be it. I've spoken to many technicians, none of whom were happy with Telkom. One friendly chap I spoke to last year is actually moving to the States because him and his wife work in Telkom, and she works at Helpdesk and earns more than him!

If we see a technician or a Telkom Colt bakkie, pull over and have a word with them. Ask them a bit about any issues you have in mind - I assure you they won't have anything good to say about TK. If we can get evidence from them which indicates that Telkom is breeching a requirement of the PSA we can have them removed. So that's 2 points of 4 we can nail them on (so far). The environmental issue can also perhaps be elaborated on by the Techies as I'm bloody sure TK doesn't do 100% of things above board WRT installations/wiring/site requirements etc. Those dishes and other oddities on the exchanges sounds quite interesting - we must find out what the signal strength of those things are, surely having a proverbial bristling christmas tree of satellite/wireless equipment concentrated in an area as small as a Telkom exchange can't possibly be healthy for the people around it.

The more ammo and facts we have the better - and yes all this might be on an open forum for all at Telkom HO to see - that's fine. This is to let you 'big guys' know that we aren't going to stop until radical changes happen at Telkom for the better of South Africa and it's people.

Mr White and kin - Telkom is raping the country, and it is going to end - sooner rather than later I can assure you of that. I will devote all my time and energy to this, so hold on cos there are hundreds of thousands more where I come from, MyADSL members included.

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Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

BTTB · Feb 8, 2004

MAD You chose your Nick well.

You write well and your points are well thought out. Im just hoping that the other people like yourself come forward and they are all twice as mad as you. No pun intended.
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You can count me in. I like to write letters.

Karnaugh · Feb 8, 2004

http://www.karnaugh.za.net/info/telkom.php

my view still stands.

Why not start an EmbarrassedlySA list?

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"Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until you hear them speak."

NetLink Research

BTTB · Feb 8, 2004

Karnaugh. Do you also go under the handle of Noddie X?

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You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

onionpeel · Feb 8, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by MaD
Mr White and kin - Telkom is raping the country, and it is going to end - sooner rather than later I can assure you of that.
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By that time, Mr White would be in a position to retire.
Telkom is paying him good money to screw the subscribers who are drooling at the mouth for this country's first commercial broadband offering.
We are the least of Mr White's worries.

MaD · Feb 8, 2004

We'll see...

________________________________________________
Just imagine where SA would be now if it weren't for Telkom

SK33T · Feb 8, 2004

Well Telkom do practise unfair labour.
Theres talk that every employee will be forced to pay union fees even if he or she doesnt want to join a union.
Now hows that for a democracy?
http://m1.mny.co.za/BBStks.nsf/0/C2256A2A0053166642256E2F0046737F?OpenDocument

mbs · Feb 8, 2004

For a democracy - great! It's a question of majority rules, which is what democracy is. I think you misintepret its definition, which does include the right of everybody to be heard, but favours majority rights over that of individual rights...
Personally, I think that those who don't join their union(s) are somewhat short-sighted, as there is a greater likelihood of achieving favourable terms and conditions of employment through strength in numbers, never-mind the personalities and politics involved...

SK33T · Feb 8, 2004

So if u dont want to join but u still have money deducted from your salary are you going to be happy,i doubt it.
What happened to individual choice,and who the hell has the right to dictate where you must spend your money.Sure strength in numbers but atleast have choice.Its like being forced to contribute to a political party and youre not happy with any of them.

mbs · Feb 9, 2004

Hehe - that's democracy for you! It's one of the age-old issues and bones of contention about the democratic approach - majority rule obviates and extinguishes individual choice! Careful here - it does not over-rule the *right* to choice (which is not democracy, but usually autocracy, together with kleptocracy), but merely the choice itself: if such choice is not in line with that of the majority, then you've lost out!

It's also why generally capitalism goes hand-in-glove with democracy, but I'm not going to go into that, as it's another raging debate that's being going on for most of the last century, with no resolution in sight... It's also one of the reasons why regulation is so essential (note: partial, *not* total), even though folks like Mithrandi disagree - but this is another debate I'm not going to get involved in, as I don't have the time nor inclination right now...

SK33T · Feb 9, 2004

mithrandi · Feb 10, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Careful here - it does not over-rule the *right* to choice (which is not democracy, but usually autocracy, together with kleptocracy), but merely the choice itself<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
This statement is absurd. If this is the case, the "right to choice" is actually the right to state your theoretical choice aloud; that's pretty damned pointless. There's also absolutely no reason why capitalism needs to be paired with democracy; it has been paired with anarchy many times in the past, and will continue to do be so in the future.

<hr noshade size="1">mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar

mbs · Feb 10, 2004

Mithrandi, in a democracy you have the right to make a choice, whether theoretical or practical, which can be manifest in any way acceptable in terms of prevailing societal norms. So make an X on a piece of paper if you want, or toy-toy down the street if you want, or do nothing - it's your right to choose, which is the essence of democracy.

Once you've made the choice, however, if you are in the minority, the choice you've made is subject to comparative rating in terms of majority versus minority (and I won't go into how this is calculated - images of the USA 'chad' debacle come to mind).

So... majority rule principles don't obviate your right to make a choice, but can cause your choice to be discarded, in favour of whatever the majority choice is. In an autocracy, you don't have the right to make a choice. So what's absurd? Maybe my original posting wasn't clear enough...

Concerning the pairing of capitalism with democracy, history shows that most democratic-type societies (and it's not necessary to qualify the degree to which they are democratic) have capitalism under-pinning their economies - this is obviously tied to the right to make a choice, which is an integral mechanism of the realisation of profit.

I don't doubt that capitalism can be equally paired to anarchy, or other societal paradigms and contexts - given the very nature of capitalism, it lends itself superbly to the all of these, as the realisation of profit is primarily founded on the principle of self-interest, which usually boils down to greed. This under-pins many societal paradigms and contexts today, whether it be the whacko stance of the USA to the rest of the international community, China's supposed liberalisation of its economy, or our own gravy train...

mithrandi · Feb 11, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">In an autocracy, you don't have the right to make a choice.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
The kind of "choice" you are talking about is something no-one can take away from you. Doesn't matter where you are, what you're doing, you can always scream out whatever you want in your head or something. The only difference between a democracy and an autocracy is that in a democracy, those in power get shuffled around every 4 years (or some similar period). For the rest of those four years, unless you happen to be one of those selected, you have no direct control over the decisions. The term for a political where majority vote decides *everything* is a "virtual democracy", I believe, and is currently just a theoretical concept.

<hr noshade size="1">mithrandi, i Ainil en-Balandor, a faer Ambar

BTTB · Mar 15, 2004

Hello members of MyADSL.

I have been contacted by the Compliance Officer, Mr Nndateni Ndou from Proudly South African. We had a good discussion and spoke about issues related to Telkom. I have forwarded the information to RPM and Im sure he will post here later. We will need information from the Members of MyADSL to prove that Telkom has not met the criteria.
I await RPM's guidance and the course to follow.

Regards,
BTTB

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.

VQuest · Mar 15, 2004

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by BTTB
 Hello members of MyADSL.

I have been contacted by the Compliance Office Mr Nndateni Ndou from Proudly South African. We had a good discussion and spoke about issues related to Telkom. I have forwarded the information to RPM and Im sure he will post here later. We will need information from the Members of MyADSL to prove that Telkom has not met the criteria.
I await RPM's guidance and the course to follow.

Regards,
BTTB

<hr noshade size="1">You can take Telkom out of the Post Office but you can't take the Post Office out of Telkom.
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Good job BTTB. I think this is an avenue to venture down. We might not get this right, but the more people we get involved in our struggle, the better chance we have of achieving our goal.

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