Google’s answer to WhatsApp

SauRoNZA said:
I wish Google would stop having half-brained kak ideas and also splitting everything into a hundred apps.
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It's almost like each Googol engineer want to push his/her app out to the WWW.... GTalk was nice, esp if you could use Pidgin. Drawback was that it was one device only.
Then they changed it to Hangouts, and multiple devices got supported (meaning your one account can have two chat windows open on two different devices simultaneously) - and that's where things went bad.
Then G+ attracted a lot of people. It was a nice place to be (apart from the poxy spammers) and when Googol decided to shut it down, a lot of people protested, but got ignored.
Now they want to implement something new again?
Played with Allo a bit, forgot about it, then moved it to /dev/null

And do Googol also do telemetry slurping on GSuite users?

Forget it, I'll stick to Telegram rather. They don't change things on a whim, or kill off something.

MeWe for social interaction (no adverts, no personal data slurping), Telegram for IM and ProtonMail for email (also without slurping telemetry).
 
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A Russian girl told me they quite often hear police chatter in the background of their WhatsApp calls.
 
The_Librarian said:
It's almost like each Googol engineer want to push his/her app out to the WWW.... GTalk was nice, esp if you could use Pidgin. Drawback was that it was one device only.
Then they changed it to Hangouts, and multiple devices got supported (meaning your one account can have two chat windows open on two different devices simultaneously) - and that's where things went bad.
Then G+ attracted a lot of people. It was a nice place to be (apart from the poxy spammers) and when Googol decided to shut it down, a lot of people protested, but got ignored.
Now they want to implement something new again?
Played with Allo a bit, forgot about it, then moved it to /dev/null

And do Googol also do telemetry slurping on GSuite users?

Forget it, I'll stick to Telegram rather. They don't change things on a whim, or kill off something.

MeWe for social interaction (no adverts, no personal data slurping), Telegram for IM and ProtonMail for email (also without slurping telemetry).
Click to expand...

You forgot about Inbox....the best thing they ever built.

But yes you would be brain dead to get invested in anything new coming out of Google only for it to be killed off right when it's actually the most useful.
 
Daruk said:
Here you go
https://hackernews.blog/vulnerability-in-telegram-allows-you-to-bypass-the-password-local-code/
No, it's no more secure than Whatsapp.
Whatsapp is merely a bigger target with a larger user base. It's more interesting to attackers.
Vulnerabilities do not have to be exploited to be vulnerabilities.

Now if your argument had been 'use Telegram because it's less of a target', I'd agree.
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Telegram not more secure than Whatsapp? Now I know you must be joking.

Chris_the_Brit said:
Why? Google will install it as the default on phones...they have a big market share which they can capture quickly. Remember MyBB geeks aren't the typical cellphone user...if an app does something without having to go to the Play Store, it might well take off, although of course the primary driver of the volume of downloads of apps is the 'network effect' (if everybody else is using it, then I will want it as well). Also with WhatsApp and ads, the time is possibly ripe for another messaging app to take over. Remember when everyone was using BBM?
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The only app worthy of taking over would ironically be one with an open api so you don't need every contact to be using the same app or messaging service. Funny how we went backwards since Jabber.
 
Bryn said:
This is more disturbing than the other posts here. Clearly you've never used Telegram. If we're going to talk purely user experience, Telegram utterly destroys WhatsApp in every possible way.

- Cloud-based, therefore untethered apps on all platforms
- No periodic cloud backups
- Very similar chat UI to WhatsApp, except you can swipe a chat away to get back to the list of chats
- Theme support, with several built in
- Dark mode, both automatic and manual, available in theme settings
- GIFs actually display properly
- Stickers and even animated stickers available
- Huge group limits with superior admin controls and media searching
- You don't have to give out your phone number, a username will do
- Users display normally in group chats regardless of whether you have them as a contact
- Groups can be made publicly searchable, and you can share a join link on any platform
- Unlimited cloud storage, with 1.5GB size limit per file
- Exceptional compression that supernaturally reduces image and video sizes
- Media doesn't automatically save to your gallery and clog up your phone and cloud photo storage with junk
- There is the option to send media uncompressed, so you have the freedom to send how you'd like
- Secret chats can have self-destructing messages
- You have a Saved Messages contact, which is a place you can dump anything you simply want to save for yourself. Very useful for sending files quickly between PC and mobile.

So, no, not just my opinion. There is no question that Telegram provides a better user experience.
Click to expand...

- Cloud-based, therefore untethered apps on all platforms - I guess that's fine.
- No periodic cloud backups - Who cares?
- Very similar chat UI to WhatsApp, except you can swipe a chat away to get back to the list of chats - So whatsapp 2.0?
- Theme support, with several built in - Who cares?
- Dark mode, both automatic and manual, available in theme settings - Not bad
- GIFs actually display properly - Not sure what this means
- Stickers and even animated stickers available - Who cares?
- Huge group limits with superior admin controls and media searching - Not bad
- You don't have to give out your phone number, a username will do - Debatable whether better or not
- Users display normally in group chats regardless of whether you have them as a contact - Who cares?
- Groups can be made publicly searchable, and you can share a join link on any platform - Quite cool
- Unlimited cloud storage, with 1.5GB size limit per file - Not bad
- Exceptional compression that supernaturally reduces image and video sizes - supernatually... wow.
- Media doesn't automatically save to your gallery and clog up your phone and cloud photo storage with junk - This is awesome, but can I have it save to phone if I still want that?
- There is the option to send media uncompressed, so you have the freedom to send how you'd like - Cool
- Secret chats can have self-destructing messages - Okay, thanks for the tip, fbi :P
- You have a Saved Messages contact, which is a place you can dump anything you simply want to save for yourself. Very useful for sending files quickly between PC and mobile. - You can do this on whatsapp as well. Just create a new group, add a random buddy or dead contact and kick em.

It's like, what, 10% better than whatsapp?

1563527611816.png
 
Prawnapple said:
- Cloud-based, therefore untethered apps on all platforms - I guess that's fine.
- No periodic cloud backups - Who cares?
- Very similar chat UI to WhatsApp, except you can swipe a chat away to get back to the list of chats - So whatsapp 2.0?
- Theme support, with several built in - Who cares?
- Dark mode, both automatic and manual, available in theme settings - Not bad
- GIFs actually display properly - Not sure what this means
- Stickers and even animated stickers available - Who cares?
- Huge group limits with superior admin controls and media searching - Not bad
- You don't have to give out your phone number, a username will do - Debatable whether better or not
- Users display normally in group chats regardless of whether you have them as a contact - Who cares?
- Groups can be made publicly searchable, and you can share a join link on any platform - Quite cool
- Unlimited cloud storage, with 1.5GB size limit per file - Not bad
- Exceptional compression that supernaturally reduces image and video sizes - supernatually... wow.
- Media doesn't automatically save to your gallery and clog up your phone and cloud photo storage with junk - This is awesome, but can I have it save to phone if I still want that?
- There is the option to send media uncompressed, so you have the freedom to send how you'd like - Cool
- Secret chats can have self-destructing messages - Okay, thanks for the tip, fbi :p
- You have a Saved Messages contact, which is a place you can dump anything you simply want to save for yourself. Very useful for sending files quickly between PC and mobile. - You can do this on whatsapp as well. Just create a new group, add a random buddy or dead contact and kick em.

It's like, what, 10% better than whatsapp?
Click to expand...

Stretching hard to downplay Telegram's features I see. Doesn't come off though.

- Most of SA is extremely data scarce and buys packages of several megabytes. WhatsApp backups are a bulls**t waste of data, as is the poor compression algorithm that you cannot disable. Perceivably reduces image quality whilst maintaining enormous file sizes. The worst of both worlds.
- You can save any image in Telegram to your gallery of course.

- It's not just 'fine' that Telegram is cloud-based. It makes a huge difference. The way it works on all platforms without any app needing to be tethered to another, especially on PC, is awesome. It's a huge usability advantage that you truly appreciate in action and find a major PITA with WhatsApp thereafter.

- This is a GIF. They display properly in Telegram and have looping and/or autoplay issues in WhatsApp. Also, Telegram converts them automatically out of the GIF format and the file size is hugely reduced.
giphy.gif


- I don't see how it's debatable whether being able to keep your phone number private is good or not.
- The media compression that Telegram uses is indeed remarkable. It decimates file sizes and makes photos and videos no less easy to view within the app. And of course if you want to send something in full quality, you have that option.

- An empty WhatsApp group is a janky alternative to the Saved Messages feature in Telegram. And it requires tethering your PC to your phone and managing your gallery afterwards. The unlimited cloud storage and 1.5GB file size play an important role here.

Let's flip the number and say Telegram is 90% better than WhatsApp. It's not twice as good, but almost.
 
Bryn said:
Stretching hard to downplay Telegram's features I see. Doesn't come off though.

- Most of SA is extremely data scarce and buys packages of several megabytes. WhatsApp backups are a bulls**t waste of data, as is the poor compression algorithm that you cannot disable. Perceivably reduces image quality whilst maintaining enormous file sizes. The worst of both worlds.
- You can save any image in Telegram to your gallery of course.

- It's not just 'fine' that Telegram is cloud-based. It makes a huge difference. The way it works on all platforms without any app needing to be tethered to another, especially on PC, is awesome. It's a huge usability advantage that you truly appreciate in action and find a major PITA with WhatsApp thereafter.

- This is a GIF. They display properly in Telegram and have looping and/or autoplay issues in WhatsApp. Also, Telegram converts them automatically out of the GIF format and the file size is hugely reduced.
giphy.gif


- I don't see how it's debatable whether being able to keep your phone number private is good or not.
- The media compression that Telegram uses is indeed remarkable. It decimates file sizes and makes photos and videos no less easy to view within the app. And of course if you want to send something in full quality, you have that option.

- An empty WhatsApp group is a janky alternative to the Saved Messages feature in Telegram. And it requires tethering your PC to your phone and managing your gallery afterwards. The unlimited cloud storage and 1.5GB file size play an important role here.

Let's flip the number and say Telegram is 90% better than WhatsApp. It's not twice as good, but almost.
Click to expand...

I am neither hear nor there on both -I use both - but as is normal wahtsapp has the sheer numbers in terms of users (for now) -
Also on this:

- Most of SA is extremely data scarce and buys packages of several megabytes. WhatsApp backups are a bulls**t waste of data, as is the poor compression algorithm that you cannot disable. - You can disable back up - and you can even disable backups of media only - seems like a you issue not a Whatsapp issue
 
Prawnapple said:
- Cloud-based, therefore untethered apps on all platforms - I guess that's fine.
- No periodic cloud backups - Who cares?
- Very similar chat UI to WhatsApp, except you can swipe a chat away to get back to the list of chats - So whatsapp 2.0?
- Theme support, with several built in - Who cares?
- Dark mode, both automatic and manual, available in theme settings - Not bad
- GIFs actually display properly - Not sure what this means
- Stickers and even animated stickers available - Who cares?
- Huge group limits with superior admin controls and media searching - Not bad
- You don't have to give out your phone number, a username will do - Debatable whether better or not
- Users display normally in group chats regardless of whether you have them as a contact - Who cares?
- Groups can be made publicly searchable, and you can share a join link on any platform - Quite cool
- Unlimited cloud storage, with 1.5GB size limit per file - Not bad
- Exceptional compression that supernaturally reduces image and video sizes - supernatually... wow.
- Media doesn't automatically save to your gallery and clog up your phone and cloud photo storage with junk - This is awesome, but can I have it save to phone if I still want that?
- There is the option to send media uncompressed, so you have the freedom to send how you'd like - Cool
- Secret chats can have self-destructing messages - Okay, thanks for the tip, fbi :p
- You have a Saved Messages contact, which is a place you can dump anything you simply want to save for yourself. Very useful for sending files quickly between PC and mobile. - You can do this on whatsapp as well. Just create a new group, add a random buddy or dead contact and kick em.

It's like, what, 10% better than whatsapp?

View attachment 685983
Click to expand...

Telegram doesn't have adverts and isn't selling your data to Facebook.
 
isie said:
I am neither hear nor there on both -I use both - but as is normal wahtsapp has the sheer numbers in terms of users (for now) -
Also on this:

- Most of SA is extremely data scarce and buys packages of several megabytes. WhatsApp backups are a bulls**t waste of data, as is the poor compression algorithm that you cannot disable. - You can disable back up - and you can even disable backups of media only - seems like a you issue not a Whatsapp issue
Click to expand...
Then you forgo having security over messages and media. A ridiculous compromise.

Even the text only backups I do every day are 25MB.
 
Bryn said:
Then you forgo having security over messages and media. A ridiculous compromise.
Click to expand...

Telegram isn't as secure as you making it out to be - normal chats and groups are not end to end encrypted only secret ones are.
Whatsapp is end to end on all including groups


Bryn said:
Even the text only backups I do every day are 25MB.
Click to expand...



Amateur:laugh:
 
isie said:
Telegram isn't as secure as you making it out to be - normal chats and groups are not end to end encrypted only secret ones are.
Whatsapp is end to end on all including groups

Amateur:laugh:
Click to expand...

All chats on Telegram are encrypted though. By default it's a cloud-based service, so the encryption is between you and the server and then the server and the recipient.
 
Bryn said:
All chats on Telegram are encrypted though. By default it's a cloud-based service, so the encryption is between you and the server and then the server and the recipient.
Click to expand...
But still stored on their server, this does leave it open - i get their reason in terms of back up and space , but still to use your words Then you forgo having security over a bit extra storage space
 
isie said:
But still stored on their server, this does leave it open - i get their reason in terms of back up and space , but still to use your words Then you forgo having security over a bit extra storage space
Click to expand...

Chats and media are not just encrypted on the Telegram servers but distributed across multiple regions to prevent a single legal authority being able to claim anything coherent.

This conversation has already occurred in this thread. There's no point postulating whether Telegram is unsecure, given the lack of evidence for a data breach, when WhatsApp has already proven itself unsecure.
 
isie said:
I am neither hear nor there on both -I use both - but as is normal wahtsapp has the sheer numbers in terms of users (for now) -
Also on this:

- Most of SA is extremely data scarce and buys packages of several megabytes. WhatsApp backups are a bulls**t waste of data, as is the poor compression algorithm that you cannot disable. - You can disable back up - and you can even disable backups of media only - seems like a you issue not a Whatsapp issue
Click to expand...
How are you arguing pro disabling backups?

Currently my Whatsapp databases:
Databases Size: 468.80MB (491577235B)

This after I purged them from about 3GB, no media is backed up, just text. I think Whatsapp really needs to work on their backups and is the main reason I started looking for an alternative at the time.
 
Johnatan56 said:
How are you arguing pro disabling backups?

Currently my Whatsapp databases:
Databases Size: 468.80MB (491577235B)

This after I purged them from about 3GB, no media is backed up, just text. I think Whatsapp really needs to work on their backups and is the main reason I started looking for an alternative at the time.
Click to expand...
I'm not I'm responding to a claim that it cannot be disabled , when it can.

Bryn said:
Chats and media are not just encrypted on the Telegram servers but distributed across multiple regions to prevent a single legal authority being able to claim anything coherent.

This conversation has already occurred in this thread. There's no point postulating whether Telegram is unsecure, given the lack of evidence for a data breach, when WhatsApp has already proven itself unsecure.
Click to expand...
Yet still it has a few flaws it saved on their servers and not end to end encrypted , and they use their own encryption , which is not independently tested these are big no no's in the encryption community.
WhatsApp servers had not been hacked either.
You postulating WhatsApp security issues while ignoring the same of Telegram.
Btw telegram has the similar flaws to WhatsApp ( our devices ), both come down to who you trust with your data in terms of encryption and then not using or exposing ( knowingly or unknowingly) your data
I'm not saying one is better then the other but you need to be realistic on both.
 
isie said:
I'm not I'm responding to a claim that it cannot be disabled , when it can.


Yet still it has a few flaws it saved on their servers and not end to end encrypted , and they use their own encryption , which is not independently tested these are big no no's in the encryption community.
WhatsApp servers had not been hacked either.
You postulating WhatsApp security issues while ignoring the same of Telegram.
Btw telegram has the similar flaws to WhatsApp ( our devices ), both come down to who you trust with your data in terms of encryption and then not using or exposing ( knowingly or unknowingly) your data
I'm not saying one is better then the other but you need to be realistic on both.
Click to expand...

But one is better than the other. By a long way.

I already addressed this previously in this thread:
https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/threads/google’s-answer-to-whatsapp.1037261/post-23792363

Bryn said:
This is more disturbing than the other posts here. Clearly you've never used Telegram. If we're going to talk purely user experience, Telegram utterly destroys WhatsApp in every possible way.

- Cloud-based, therefore untethered apps on all platforms
- No periodic cloud backups
- Very similar chat UI to WhatsApp, except you can swipe a chat away to get back to the list of chats
- Theme support, with several built in
- Dark mode, both automatic and manual, available in theme settings
- GIFs actually display properly
- Stickers and even animated stickers available
- Huge group limits with superior admin controls and media searching
- You don't have to give out your phone number, a username will do
- Users display normally in group chats regardless of whether you have them as a contact
- Groups can be made publicly searchable, and you can share a join link on any platform
- Unlimited cloud storage, with 1.5GB size limit per file
- Exceptional compression that supernaturally reduces image and video sizes
- Media doesn't automatically save to your gallery and clog up your phone and cloud photo storage with junk
- There is the option to send media uncompressed, so you have the freedom to send how you'd like
- Secret chats can have self-destructing messages
- You have a Saved Messages contact, which is a place you can dump anything you simply want to save for yourself. Very useful for sending files quickly between PC and mobile.

So, no, not just my opinion. There is no question that Telegram provides a better user experience.
Click to expand...

My argument is Telegram does not trump whatsapp for security.
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Bryn said:
This is madness.

- WhatsApp has already had an incident where attackers could access anything on your phone.
https://www.businessinsider.com/whatsapp-hacked-attackers-installed-spyware-2019-5?r=US&IR=T

- Before that, hackers could use the video call feature to access your entire phone
https://securitytoday.com/articles/2018/10/12/whatsapp-bug-allowed-hackers-to-hijack-accounts.aspx

- WhatsApp is not banned in Iran and Russia. Telegram is.

- WhatsApp backups were not encrypted following the introduction of E2E encryption.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-...ages-privacy-security-read-chat-a8510701.html

Which is how Paul Manafort's messages were accessed:
https://slate.com/technology/2018/06/paul-manafort-how-did-fbi-access-whatsapp-messages.html

- WhatsApp leaks loads of metadata about user behaviour
https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...ackdoor-government-data-request/#2ca6dd8c1030

- The WhatsApp co-founders left the company over data privacy issues
https://www.theverge.com/2018/4/30/17304792/whatsapp-jan-koum-facebook-data-privacy-encryption

And Brian Acton literally said "I sold my users' privacy":
https://www.cnet.com/news/whatsapp-cofounder-i-sold-my-users-privacy-with-facebook-acquisition/

So while Telegram is not perfect (and no messaging service ever will be), it has never had a major data breach or privacy scandal. Or really anything that shows users' messages or media being compromised. By comparison, Facebook cares nought for user privacy and just wants to monetise its users. Facebook has already announced a project to integrate WhatsApp, FB Messenger and Instagram chat, and all will contain ads. And Facebook has just been fined $5bn for its data practices. It's a scumbag company.

For you to go off the rails on Telegram is absurd. They exhibit none of what makes Facebook and WhatsApp terrible. Everything you've said so far is conjecture based on flimsy evidence, whereas the status quo is demonstrably unsecure.
Click to expand...
 
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