Graveyard killer jailed for 20 years

[Mike Hoxbig]

I'd tap that, if I didn't know that she had a guy's eyeball and penis lying around her house :erm:

 

[reedOsama]

In principle I am against the death penalty, but our country is so crime-ridden that it seems draconian measures are necessary to make any kind of impact.

For our country specifically it would actually make no difference. The crime here is mostly due to poor service delivery.

Someone did a survey of it during the xenophobia violence: whilst one squatter camp was out looting and killing foreigners a squatter camp not too far away was completely peaceful. The leader of the squatter camp was asked why was that and he told the guy that it was due to better service delivery. They had electrical lines, running water and their rubbish was being picked up every week.

Majority of the crime here is due to circumstances, if you lived in a shack and hadn't eaten for a day do you think that you wouldn't either go steal food or steal money to buy food?

Perhaps with the dysfunctional system in the U.S.

That's the only way to do it in a democracy. Since the introduction of DNA testing 1 in 7 death row inmates have been declared innocent. That means before that 1 in 7 people executed were innocent. The court's policy is to rather set a guilty man free then to send an innocent man to jail... and once you've executed someone you cannot bring them back to correct your mistake.

The only way the death penalty would change anything is if you handed it out very easily and killed large amounts of people to scare the rest of the population. As far as I'm concerned that would leave us no different from the African dictatorships that kill anyone who opposes them.

and I think you're sick in the head for wanting to grant murderers, child killers etc free board and lodging for life on the backs of law abiding decent hard-working people.

I don't think you understand the scope of death therefore you're able to hand it out so easily.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

No impact if the likelihood of getting caught is low, and the chances of getting convicted are low. Supporters of execution talk about it like some magical remedy.

In principle I'm not against the death penalty, but there are so many problems with evidence and court systems that it cannot be reliably applied. As an act of revenge it needs to be applied with 100% reliability since there's no demonstrable deterrent value.

That's true. The conviction rate is ridiculously low. Deterrent or not, it stops the people who commit these heinous acts from ever doing it again. Practically speaking, the police have basically instituted the death penalty. "You shoot at us, we shoot back". I have no sympathy for brutal thugs who terrorise people with automatic weapons and have no qualms about slaughtering innocent bystanders.

Majority of the crime here is due to circumstances, if you lived in a shack and hadn't eaten for a day do you think that you wouldn't either go steal food or steal money to buy food?

I don't want people who steal bread to be executed, obviously. :erm:

I'm talking about monsters like the girl in the OP. Beasts that don't only rob you of your possessions (which are replaceable), but who torture and inflict horrific suffering on their victims. I see no reason why society should preserve these wastes of life. Criminals like the sugar plantation killer in KZN, or that coloured guy in Pollsmoor who will never see free daylight again, and have absolutely no chance of rehabilitation. Why should they be allowed to be a drag on our society?

 

[reedOsama]

I'm talking about monsters like the girl in the OP. Beasts that don't only rob you of your possessions (which are replaceable), but who torture and inflict horrific suffering on their victims. I see no reason why society should preserve these wastes of life. Criminals like the sugar plantation killer in KZN, or that coloured guy in Pollsmoor who will never see free daylight again, and have absolutely no chance of rehabilitation. Why should they be allowed to be a drag on our society?

Yah, now you're talking about very specific types of people and in order for the court to find these people it'll need to hold expensive trials. Also "monsters" like the ones you're talking about are probably not going to be deterred by the death sentence. That coloured guy that you're talking about was in jail for a very long time starting at a very young age and I'm definitely assuming this but I'm pretty sure if he grew up under better/different circumstances he would not be the way he is now.

I also don't see how those people are dragging society down, they've been isolated and don't have anything to do with anyone. By wanting them dead you've lost sight of what's really important... preventing further victims and all you're thinking about is vengeance. I think it's what seperates us from savages that we treat the lowest of the low with dignity and rights. When those Libyan rebels found Gaddafi and decided to execute him did you feel justice had been served, do you think the rest of the world now looks at Libya as a country that isn't "dragged down"?

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Yah, now you're talking about very specific types of people and in order for the court to find these people it'll need to hold expensive trials. Also "monsters" like the ones you're talking about are probably not going to be deterred by the death sentence. That coloured guy that you're talking about was in jail for a very long time starting at a very young age and I'm definitely assuming this but I'm pretty sure if he grew up under better/different circumstances he would not be the way he is now.

I also don't see how those people are dragging society down, they've been isolated and don't have anything to do with anyone. By wanting them dead you've lost sight of what's really important... preventing further victims and all you're thinking about is vengeance. I think it's what seperates us from savages that we treat the lowest of the low with dignity and rights. When those Libyan rebels found Gaddafi and decided to execute him did you feel justice had been served, do you think the rest of the world now looks at Libya as a country that isn't "dragged down"?

This particular court case wasn't very expensive, seeing as she immediately confessed and didn't try and stall the court proceedings. The expensive part comes in when she's in jail for the rest of her life and the taxpayer has to pay for everything, including medical expenses. Not that jails are 5-star hotels, obviously.

I have no doubt that his life circumstances played a significant role in how he developed, but he most definitely is a drag on society. What do you think his influence is on those prisoners around him? Do you think it's a positive one? He's effectively destroying any chance they have of rehabilitation. The way those gangs operate, they basically demolish any semblance of humanity you might have left. So financially he's a drag, since it costs a lot of money for him to be there, and he poisons everything around him. A new prisoner in that prison has very little chance of coming through unscathed.

Gaddafi's murder was a sad start for a new Libya. Getting him in front of a court would have given him and his accusers a proper chance of closing that chapter, which is now left hanging.

Look man, I don't think our opinions differ that much. I just think the situation currently is an absolute tragedy. People being butchered daily in the most horrific ways. Poverty and socio-economic conditions doesn't cause the heartless ways these people are committing their crimes.

 

[reedOsama]

This particular court case wasn't very expensive, seeing as she immediately confessed and didn't try and stall the court proceedings. The expensive part comes in when she's in jail for the rest of her life and the taxpayer has to pay for everything, including medical expenses. Not that jails are 5-star hotels, obviously.

So lets pretend they've decided to hand her the death penalty. Now she needs a second trial to determine if she deserves it or not (very expensive), she gets the death sentence and is put on death row... the minimum time she'll be there is probably 5 years (gotta pay for that too). All in all more expensive.

I have no doubt that his life circumstances played a significant role in how he developed, but he most definitely is a drag on society. What do you think his influence is on those prisoners around him? Do you think it's a positive one? He's effectively destroying any chance they have of rehabilitation. The way those gangs operate, they basically demolish any semblance of humanity you might have left. So financially he's a drag, since it costs a lot of money for him to be there, and he poisons everything around him. A new prisoner in that prison has very little chance of coming through unscathed.

Very few prisoners are going to have a positive effect on any other prisoners. In fact if you want to rehabilitate the prisoners you're probably going to need to improve the state of the prisons and *God forbid the government spend our tax money on that:wtf:

*that was sarcasm

Look man, I don't think our opinions differ that much. I just think the situation currently is an absolute tragedy. People being butchered daily in the most horrific ways. Poverty and socio-economic conditions doesn't cause the heartless ways these people are committing their crimes.

I think our opinions are the exact opposite but I apologise if it seems like I'm attacking you.