Greece readies new austerity measures

sox63

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Greece readied severe austerity measures on Thursday to secure multi-billion dollar aid, providing relief to financial markets but drawing threats of a mighty battle from Greek unions.

A union official said the IMF had asked Greece to raise VAT, scrap salary bonuses amounting to two extra months of pay in the public sector and accept a 3-year pay freeze. "It's a done deal," said Ilias Iliopoulos, general secretary of public sector union Adedy after meeting Prime Minister George Papandreou.

Hectic measures being put in place there. Good luck to them getting it right.

Trade Unions have made clear they will oppose austerity measures and have called a series of strikes - potentially complicating government efforts to drive through fresh cuts. A protest rally on Tuesday drew about 2 000 people. "It's a disaster! The government has crossed the line. We can't live this way," said Despina Spanou, member of public sector union Adedy's board. "We will fight these measures with all our might, because this is a battle for survival."

http://www.fin24.com/International/Greece-readies-new-austerity-measures-20100429

One would think Vavi himself drew up this statement. But I guess Trade Unions are all the same at the end of the day. If I was working in Public Sector in Greece I would be looking for another job, I would not tolerate a 3 year pay freeze while the cost of living rises every year...
 
Some more on Greece:



* Click on quotes for articles.
 
If I was working in Public Sector in Greece I would be looking for another job, I would not tolerate a 3 year pay freeze while the cost of living rises every year...

Good luck finding another job :erm:

Poor Europeans are having their cushy benefits taken away so they're having hissy fits. Spain, Portugal and even Italy are flirting with catastrophe as well while poor Germany will have to bail them all out :o

Not to mention Iceland's collapse
 
Poor Europeans are having their cushy benefits taken away so they're having hissy fits. Spain, Portugal and even Italy are flirting with catastrophe as well while poor Germany will have to bail them all out :o

Wonder how long Germany will be willing to foot the bill, before they go solo from the EU?
 
Good luck finding another job :erm:

Poor Europeans are having their cushy benefits taken away so they're having hissy fits. Spain, Portugal and even Italy are flirting with catastrophe as well while poor Germany will have to bail them all out :o

Not to mention Iceland's collapse

It scares me how those goverments let things get so bad! And IMO, if it was not for the financial markets crisis, business would have carried on as usual...
 
Fin24 said:
A protest rally on Tuesday drew about 2 000 people.

That's not particularly many people, but I'm sure the numbers will swell once the measures are actually put in place.

sox62 said:
It scares me how those goverments let things get so bad!

Government deregulation/apathy + private sector banking greed = disaster waiting to happen
 
Wonder how long Germany will be willing to foot the bill, before they go solo from the EU?

The irony is the E.U gave Germany and France hegemony over the rest of Europe they've always wanted. This though is not what they were expecting :o

The Brits must be thankfull Labour and the Lib Dems didn't get their way and joined the E.U :erm:

It scares me how those governments let things get so bad! And IMO, if it was not for the financial markets crisis, business would have carried on as usual...

Ultimately it would all come crashing down in the end anyway.

These countries are like the banks in the U.S/U.K. To big to be allowed to fail. It's a godsend for politicians. They promise extensive benefits for the voters, spend like there is no tomorrow knowing that they have the safety net of the E.U to bail the country out. Hopefully it happens years down the line when they've already left power.

Seems there's not much difference between your capitalist bankers and socialist politicians

Government deregulation/apathy + private sector banking greed = disaster waiting to happen

Except that's not what happened to Greece. State Debt is the problem.
 
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The whole system of Western wealth and dominance, credit as money, is coming to an end.
We are witnessing the end of the fiat paper currency system where the paper money, the cash in your bank aco****, 's value is detirmend by the ability of your country's government to repay it's debts.

The sooner bankrupt and spendthrifts are allowed to go bankrupt/default, the sooner we can get the mess cleared. Bailouts just postpones the enevitable.
Why should frugal, hard working Germans, who lived within their means finance a spendthrift ? The Germans might as well be throwing their money down a bottomless pit. Angela Merkel (Deutchland) should put their foot down and not give the Greeks anyone else for that matter one cent.

Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain ? Let them default. Let them bite the bullet and get competitive again. And the same goes for every other country that live beyond it's means.

My guess is that the bailouts will go on until the countries financing the bailouts themselves will be so in debt that they themselves will face a credit rating downgrade, causing their interest rates to rise and currency devaluation.

Utter madness was/is to try to cure a debt problem with even more debt.

My forecast for the near future (5-10 years from now):
- The USA will buckle under it's tremendous debts (something like 157 TRILLION Dollars, do you even know how many zero's there are to have a trillion ?).
- The US will default on it's debts, prbably through a currency devaluation and massive inflation.
- The Euro will not survive in it's current form. Spendthrifts will be booted out of the Euro and only a few (maybe 5 or less) countries will remain with Euro as common currency.
- The US Dollar will losse it's status as reserve currency of the planet.
- US Government's medium and short term debt market will collapse.
- The once mighty US Military machine will gather rust.
- US will provoke (in some way) or try to start a military confilct with Iran. Like a blockade of Iranian supplies.
- Hard assets, like gold, silver and oil will explode in price as investors flee fiat paper currency.
- China wil emerge as the domaniting force and may as well have the Chinese Yaun as reserve currency.
- South Africa will be, within a generation or so, a fully fledged Kleptocracy (a la Haiti).

Anybody that knows a bit of history and financial intelligence would know the origins of the current system of money and credit. Much of it started with inception of the American Federal Reserve system, the Bretton Woods agreement.
Who finances the public sector wages ? The private sector, through taxes and government debt. Governments only consume and always seem to be getting bigger. It's of my opinion to pay as little tax as possible because I don't want a bureaucrat to go and live a fat cat spendthrift corrupt lifestyle on my money. No way.


I bet few people know that the Japanese attack on pearl harbour was a direct result of American fuel blockade to Japan. A blockade in itself, by international law is an act of war. Probably by the end of May 2010, corporatists in the US Congress will try to enact a law for a blockade of Iran. If the US Navy is to enforce the blockade, that would be An act of war.

Did you know that Russia's debt is only 6,9% of the country's GDP !! That means that Russians can probably pay of their debt tomorrow if they so decide.
 
oh really ? and you know this how ?

Most people find the answer too boring, but it does affect every one of us in a dramatic way. Western wealth is/was built on credit and the availability of credit. Without the gold standard governments all over the world where able to create an endless amount of credit to finance their own as well as consumer expansion. Easy credit meant consumers could borrow and spend like there's no tomorrow. Credit standards got lax and was given to anyone that could breathe, regardless of their abaility to repay. The debt was combined into bonds, graded by credit agencies, sold and traded on exchanges and used as collataral - all the while the bonds themselves where worthless as the bonds had nothing tangable backing it up. Fractional Reserve Banking.

In the days of a gold standard governments was limited to how much they could borrow and spend.
Governments had to keep reserve of gold to pay it's obligations. It could only spend as much as it had in reserve. International trade often meant that countries had to pay for goods by trading physical gold. Does it now make sense to you why there was two "Boer" wars in S-Africa in the 1880's and 1899 ? Back then in the days of the Gold Standard there it meant that getting your hands on the gold would've meant in credible wealth. South Africa left the gold standard in 1927. The South African Reserve bank was also one of the first (actually the 4th) contry in the world to have a central bank. Although supposedly independant, Central banks and corporate interests are usually closely linked.
In many countries the going off the gold standard initially lead to an credit fueled economic boom, often called a miracle economy.

Don't you think it is silly to supply more credit to someone who has no idea how to work with money ? It might bore you to death to read the why's and the if's. If you would rather watch a movie i advise you to watch the movie I.O.U.S.A. and Zeitgeist 2.
If you think Obama is an angel ? He is no different than Bush, just continueing where Bush left off. And how does this affect S-Africa ? The Reserve Bank keeps USD reserves. Need I say more ?

What is inflation ?
No it's not when prices go up. That is because of inflation. Inflation is an increase in the money supply. It is and increasing amount of money chasing after a supply of of goods/services which remains constant in their supply/availability.
Inflation is a tax on on the poor while the wealthy has learned how to use inflation to their advantage to actually increase their wealth.

- Gold is no one's liability. Unlike fiat paper money, Gold cannot be conjoured out of thin air.
- Removing the gold standard meant that countries could start issueing debt and paying for their bills.
- Fractional Reserve Banking: Meaning that for every R1 you deposit into the bank the bank can lend out R10. The bank can then lend out the R10 to someone else who can use this loan to secure another debt, and put this money back into (another)bank. The bank can then use this R10 as security and turn that into R100 and so on. All from just your R1. That is fractional banking, and it has every bit to do with the current financial crises. As you can see, this is a simple example of what banks do to blow up their balance sheet. The R1 could also have been borrowed, and NOTHING tangable like a gold coint backing it. This is a simple example of the derivatives meltdown.

The current policies followed by British, EU and American are Keynesian. After theories developed by British economist John Maynard Keynes in the 1930's. Keneysian is also very much favoured by corporatists.
However, I am an Autrian Economist follower. What is Austrian Economics ?

I advise you to read the free PDF book: What has the Government Done with Our Money by Murray Rothbard.
If you would rather watch a video, go and look on Youtube for video "Ron Paul What If remastered", "Peter Schiff was right", "Ron Paul questions Bernanke 2010" videos.

If you are currently a student at Uni or Tech, you are probably being taught the Keneysian economics.
If you listen to Dr Ron Paul's predictions from 1985 you'd be shocked to see/hear how many of them has come true.

http://mises.org/etexts/Menger/principles.asp
If you don't believe me, just check out the charts for 1 ounce of gold and a barrel of crude oil.
Gold had a low of $252 ten years ago, and today it's more than

Books:
Jorge Besada - "Economics and the Social order".
Robert Kiyosaki - "Rich Dad, Poor Dad: What the rich teach their kids that the poor and middle class do not". This should be available at most book sellers, you local CNA/PNA, and costs around R50. These two books might change your life.
 
The whole system of Western wealth and dominance, credit as money, is coming to an end.

I don’t know much about economics, but IMO a HUGE threat is not being taken into consideration. It’s been coming down the pike for years. And it’s a biggie – it is beginning to peak now and will do so for the next decade. Earnest economists do little more than apply band aids. Visualise the Baby Boomer generation as this large bump moving along the graph of history. Because of their economically active actions, there was a surplus of funds to initiate pension plans, health services etc. (generally socially ‘good’ things). The Baby Boomer’s parents benefited. Now with all these socially ‘good’ programs and an aging Baby Boomer generation to sustain, the non-boomers (numerically less) are taking strain. I contend that these social systems are unsustainable and will collapse. Consumption has expanded during those Boomer years so when the collapse comes, it will be severe. This is on top of the current woes
 
What I find amazing is that every country in the world is apparently in debt yet they are lending each other money. This begs the question: Where the hell does it come from? The simple answer (because Im really simple when it comes to economics) is surely that all this money is essentially numbers on thin air.
 
This begs the question: Where the hell does it come from? The simple answer (because Im really simple when it comes to economics) is surely that all this money is essentially numbers on thin air.

Money comes from the printing presses. Every time some country's treasury is looking a little empty (which is almost daily for some) somebodys finger hits the "start" button on the money presses. I think the Americans have done away with fingers on buttons a long time ago and just lodge a brick and duct tape it to the start button.
 
What I find amazing is that every country in the world is apparently in debt yet they are lending each other money. This begs the question: Where the hell does it come from? The simple answer (because Im really simple when it comes to economics) is surely that all this money is essentially numbers on thin air.

QE/Quantative Easing is just a faqncy word for 'printing money and also a fancy word for saying 'creating money out of thin air. Please note: This is illegal when citizens do it, but not when a government do it ? Now who's defrauding who ?

You are correct, MOST of the countries on the planet, and most of them 'Western' countries are in debt up to their eyeballs. Where do they get the money ? They have to borrow it from someone else. And yes, those 'out of thin air' is the Fractional Reserve Banking.

In short, countries (used) to borrow from each other based on the country's credit rating. The credit rating is the ability to pay. Just like individuals, you and me, who has to get a credit score to apply for a loan. Credit rating agencies, and you may have heard the names "Standard & Poor, Fitch", are most influentlual. Their ratings can make or break a country or company. Their corrupt flawed ratings was very much part of the reason the credit crises/credit crunch erupted to make an end to expose the credit bubble. Contrarian investors offcourse knew about the bubble - decades ago.

How is the money created 'out of thin air ? Cental banks (like the SA Reserve Bank) electronically creates money, it's just numbers on a computer system, out of thin air. In the days of the gold standard every Rand in your pocket was guarenteed by an equal amount of gold in the vaults of the Reserve bank. Depending on your age, the R10 note in you rpocket used to have word on "Betaal aan toonder R10 / Pay bearer TEN RAND". That meant that one could walk to the Reserve Bank and demand them to put R10's worth of physical gold in your hands. R10 does not sound like much ? It was worth much more when there was a gold standard because governments could not create money from thin air. Your money in your pocket was linked to gold. 1oz of gold used to be USD38/$38.
Watch the movie IOUSA, Zetgeist 2 or The Obama Deception for a very good explantion. This is how the world is being run.

Where do the Western nations get the money from to finance their debts/spending ? From the savers, countries with budget surpoluses, that have low debt and who's citizens and governments are living within their means are taking risks on by borrowing to spendthrifts.

Saver countries like Russia, Germany, China, Brazil, and even Japan. Those countries still have an industrial base. They make stuff, whereas S-Africa, UK, USA etc are 'service' industry. The service industry countries had their industrial base deteriorate, and generally their cost of labour and productivity are much higher than countries that make stuff.

Just like individuals countries also have assigned levels of risk to their debt. The higher the risk, the lower the grading. The best rating is AAA. Currently USA, UK and few other have AAA rating. Please note that those countries are all suffering from crusing debt and are facing a downgrade, which would spark off an currency crises. Inflation as we've never seen it in our lifetimes. Gold prices through the roof.

Some countries/companies have strict rules on borrowing. They are only allowed to borrow bond rated AAA. A downgrade to lower than A (B+, B- or whetever) means that the debtor country has to pay more interest to attract money to finance their debts. Greece's debt shot up from around 6% to 18% in about two weeks. It's the same as your mortage. If one pays 6% interest, it's affordable, suddenly interest rate goes up to 18% and the debt becomes unaffordable. You cannot afford to refinance and in Greece's case, probably default (declare bankruptcy) on their debt. Defaults usually happen more-or-less in unison. It's contagious. That means several countries might default one after the other.

It's not unusual for countries to default. It's happened many times in the past. South Africa defaulted in 1985 (Interest rates in SA went to 25%), Russia in 1997, Argentina in 2001, even Brazil a few years ago, etc. As you can see some of the countries that defaukted on their debts are now the ones with the strongest economies.
 
Consumption has expanded during those Boomer years so when the collapse comes, it will be severe. This is on top of the current woes

I agree. In the EU and in the USA people that retired over the last 20 years has had the most royal of benefits. Especially for people in the EU countries. I think people currenltly under age of 40 years or less would be unlikely to enjoy any of the cozy benefits.
Demographics are a nightmare in most if not all Western countries, By the time all the Baby Boomers retire and claim their benefits USA would be bankrupt. I read that USA has something like $157 Trillion in liabilities. There's no way they would be able to fund that without going bankrupt in some way. I don't even know how many zero's it would take to wroite out a trillion. The population bomb also means that an ever decreasing base of younger people must support and ever increasing population of pensioners. That goes for tax and revenue as well. Unlike in Africa where they're breeding like rabbits. South Africa doesn't seem to be any different. I guess that just like in most other countries, less than 1 out of 10 people made adequate arrangements (savings/investments) for their retirement.

Did you also know that the US Military machine is the single laregest consumer of fuel (crude oil) on the planet ?
 
Money comes from the printing presses. Every time some country's treasury is looking a little empty (which is almost daily for some) somebodys finger hits the "start" button on the money presses. I think the Americans have done away with fingers on buttons a long time ago and just lodge a brick and duct tape it to the start button.

Very funny but very true reply, I think !!
 
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