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Hardy Heron Making Linux Ready for the Masses?
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SlinkyMike
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Honestly, this comment has been bandied about with just about every distro.
People have to change in order for OSS to be embraced in in its entirety.
I think we sell ourselves short accepting the k@k we do from the likes of MS (Vista ...*spit*), people are conditioned to believe its just easier to pay the money than to figure it out yourself.
It will require a paradigm shift for 'the masses' to adopt OSS solutions.
The real question is: are the masses ready for Linux?
People have to change in order for OSS to be embraced in in its entirety.
I think we sell ourselves short accepting the k@k we do from the likes of MS (Vista ...*spit*), people are conditioned to believe its just easier to pay the money than to figure it out yourself.
It will require a paradigm shift for 'the masses' to adopt OSS solutions.
The real question is: are the masses ready for Linux?
Well i cant wait for the 24th to upgrade my 7.10
People will always be resistant to change, I remember when I went from dos to win95, and absolutely loathed this newfangled os. In dos, I could flippen put my games where I wanted, now an uppity OS, wanted to install everything on its own, and in some new fangled things called "folders"!!
People will always be resistant to change, I remember when I went from dos to win95, and absolutely loathed this newfangled os. In dos, I could flippen put my games where I wanted, now an uppity OS, wanted to install everything on its own, and in some new fangled things called "folders"!!
One of the advantages Winodws has is that the majority of people typically don't have to install it. Thus Linux is on the back foot in that people have to take an active step to put it onto their desktop. From my experiences it is no more harder of easier to install than Windows.
Although I suppose installing from a LiveCD (which is something I don't do for any distro), makes it much easier than Windows given (I assume) that you have access to the Internet at the same time.
Being that as it may, Ubuntu installs are no different from Fedora, SUSE or Debian installs in my experience.
Although I suppose installing from a LiveCD (which is something I don't do for any distro), makes it much easier than Windows given (I assume) that you have access to the Internet at the same time.
Being that as it may, Ubuntu installs are no different from Fedora, SUSE or Debian installs in my experience.
SlinkyMike
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As the argument goes (and I for one agree with it) having the choice of what to install and doing it yourself is empowering, not to mention the financial aspect. I'd say that my new laptop would have been in the region of 3k less expensive had it not had Vista pre-installed. I'd have trotted off to the local toaster burnt a copy of the latest distro and Robert would have been my mothers brother
chiskop
Executive Member
QFT.
That is exactly what I was going to post. (Except for gaming) linux is easier, more efficient, and more secure. And obviously cheaper.
Its just hard for people to consider breaking out of their comfort zones. Although IMO, the biggest obstacle is still the fact that you will struggle to buy a computer without windows pre-installed.
Yeah, its sad that the market is so badly manipulated by Microsoft
... and people dont know any better.Skeptik
Banned
It is less about manipulation than it is about support. There are so many variations in Linux, how could a retailer offer support for them. They would have to stick to one distro. Even then, imagine all the calls from users requiring support. If I had trouble re-installing imagine how hot the supprt line would get!!Yeah, its sad that the market is so badly manipulated by Microsoft
The technicians would all require training in Windows and Linux.
orin76
Expert Member
Are the different distros really all that different with regards to support. In my experience (limited as it may be), if you can configure devices using the command line in distro A, the same procedure will work for distro B,C etc. 99% of the time. I only run into trouble when I need to use GUI tools, because those vary from distro to distro. If your techie knows linux shell commands well, he/she should be able to support multiple distros.
Our linux stalker
Skeptik, one day when you have a real point and an informed opinion I will respond to you.. but right now you are stalking and trolling in this section like you did in the VC section. Enjoy!
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95%+ of solutions for a distro will work for another. I would like to think having used SUSE, Mandriva, Fedora, ()ubuntu and Debian that I can make such a statement. And where there are differences, they are minor and can be resolved pretty easily and quickly in my experience.
agree with the command line statement as well.
SlinkyMike
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True, support is a burgeoning market for Linux enthusiasts but this is solely in the business sphere.
Certainly, you cannot be arguing that Microsoft has good support for home users?
Ubuntuforums is all I have ever needed to sort out kinks with my Linux boxes. to this day I have issues with my Windows machines that I have resigned myself to whining about, secure in the knowledge they will never be fixed (yes, I did just install Vista SP1 before you ask
).Skeptik
Banned
Oh, another attack the person reply.Our linux stalker
I predict that as with many UBUNTU releases, with this Hardy Heron carp you won't notice much difference at all.
True, support is a burgeoning market for Linux enthusiasts but this is solely in the business sphere.
Certainly, you cannot be arguing that Microsoft has good support for home users?
Ubuntuforums is all I have ever needed to sort out kinks with my Linux boxes. to this day I have issues with my Windows machines that I have resigned myself to whining about, secure in the knowledge they will never be fixed (yes, I did just install Vista SP1 before you ask
I have never got a single bit of support from MS... like ever, and I have being using MS since Windows 3.0 days... no wait, I was using DOS3 as well. I imagine something like windowsforums.org would be a colossal failure if it was supported by microsoft as the complaints would be endless.
I love my new supported system
I am really excited about this new version of Ubuntu... but imagine where it is going to be next year!!! w00t!
SlinkyMike
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...some of the new tweaks sound really useful - pausing copy / move operations is a totally new functionality AFAIK.
The_Unbeliever
Honorary Master
The only differences I have picked up between ubuntu and suse is the way packages are managed and installed.
Gnome and KDE - well, different desktops, but the same basics apply to both. If you have used KDE then you'll be able to use Gnome, and vice-versa. The thing here is to choose what you're comfortable with.
In the command-line environment you get all the same utilities - but some of these require a slightly different syntax than the other, but all of these does the same job.
Like I've said before, download a couple of up-to-date distributions, try them out, and stick with the one you'll really like.
It's only a person who's really close-minded who'll give up in disgust and go back to windows (and have fun with viruses and trojans)
The only time I phoned M$ was to reactivate a copy of WindersXP
Gnome and KDE - well, different desktops, but the same basics apply to both. If you have used KDE then you'll be able to use Gnome, and vice-versa. The thing here is to choose what you're comfortable with.
In the command-line environment you get all the same utilities - but some of these require a slightly different syntax than the other, but all of these does the same job.
Like I've said before, download a couple of up-to-date distributions, try them out, and stick with the one you'll really like.
It's only a person who's really close-minded who'll give up in disgust and go back to windows (and have fun with viruses and trojans)
The only time I phoned M$ was to reactivate a copy of WindersXP
SilverNodashi
Expert Member
Regardless of what OS the mases use, this will be a problem. Even after a user has spend R3k on office, he'll still phone you 20 times a day to find out how todo this or that.
Why? Do you remember the good 'ol PC Dos, Easy123, Test Drive1, etc days? People can & will accept change. Teaching my mom to use a mouse on Windows 98 from a DOS bases system was a big challenge, yet she's used to it now. In a few years time I'll probably have to teach her to use a virtual headset instead of the mouse
Yes, and no. Even @ MS, the tech's are all trained in, and support specific stuff. For example, a office tech won't have a clue on how to support a SQL problem. Same thing here. Only difference is that Linux support staff often come in cheaper, since the training is cheaper (no licences, free stuff on the net, etc)
Again, yes & no. If everyone standardize on say KDE or Gnome, the support will be similar. With the exception of stuff like YaST on Suse, or other control panels in other distro's. IMO even though {}buntu is easy to install, the control panel is limited and crap. I've setup Suse & Fedora Core servers for client who are very computer illiterate, yet when I tell them, "click here, click there, do this", they can do it quickly. The base Linux's can differ a bit, but for a desktop it shouldn't. Stick a GUI and users will work with it. And they love the kewl gamez
Yes, but MS also had to build up their support base over the past 10 - 15 years in order to support the various products, mockup and messups they have.True, support is a burgeoning market for Linux enthusiasts but this is solely in the business sphere.
Certainly, you cannot be arguing that Microsoft has good support for home users?
Ubuntuforums is all I have ever needed to sort out kinks with my Linux boxes. to this day I have issues with my Windows machines that I have resigned myself to whining about, secure in the knowledge they will never be fixed (yes, I did just install Vista SP1 before you ask
I worked @ netactive many years ago as support engineer, and I had 1 Linux, 1 Windows 3.0 & 1 MAC call every 3 months or so. I was the only one could support it back then, but it was fun knowing that a user on the other side with different needs can get support.
Who do you think supports Mainframes, Linux & UNIX servers, and POS systems, which often run Linux as well?
chiskop
Executive Member
Why? Do you remember the good 'ol PC Dos, Easy123, Test Drive1, etc days? People can & will accept change. Teaching my mom to use a mouse on Windows 98 from a DOS bases system was a big challenge, yet she's used to it now. In a few years time I'll probably have to teach her to use a virtual headset instead of the mouse
Ah, Test drive.
The thing is that very few people ever installed an OS themselves. As they bought new computers, they adapted to the new OS -the same as what's happening with XP -> Vista.
Sure, a small minority take control and install their choice of OS but most will adapt to what is on their new computer.
SilverNodashi
Expert Member
true. Do you see MAC people complaing about their MAC's, even thought it's preinstalled? Not really. But, they won't change cause it's a good product.
So, start shipping PC's with Linux, and you'll soon see the masses use it, regardsless of what the sceptics have to say. Dell already does, I know some online PC shops also ship PC's with Ubuntu, the the Asis EEE laptop is Linux
So, start shipping PC's with Linux, and you'll soon see the masses use it, regardsless of what the sceptics have to say. Dell already does, I know some online PC shops also ship PC's with Ubuntu, the the Asis EEE laptop is Linux
chiskop
Executive Member
I think you misspelled Skeptik.