Helping people out

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SpyderJ

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Hello there programmers.

I have a question for you all that reply to "help" people out.

If I have a problem with a car and you tell me to rather get another type or make cause then you will never have those problems, does that seem fair?

What I am trying to get at is that people that "help" people on forums like these sometimes fustrate new programmers by just not answering questions correctly.

I agree that it is a good idea to suggest new options for programmers but for my sake and everyone newbie dont post if you dont have a solution to the current problem or at least point them in the correct direct for their given problem.
I see this time and time again with people for whatever reason they have every coder adding their two cents worth on what they think piece of technology is better to do the job and no just help the guy out with his current problem.

There is nothing more disconcerting to get a email that your post has been replied to and you get someone has just told you that you need to redo everything and by changing a technology.

All I asking is if you are about to post please think about these points first, and not ask them to buy a different car.
 
Fair enough... I see your point.
But programming is about compiling useful solutions from a bunch of info. If the advice you get is from all angles and flavors, it's better. You get more insight into what needs to be done and what can be done. Then you just google a bit, make your own conclusion... and get back to work.

Or perhaps that's just my way of doing things...
 
But to add to that, most "newbies" will rather just post their problem on forums like these without doing the effort of a google search first.

Second, if you can't post at least a decend idea of what the problem is, example, "Help, I can't see the database" instead of "Can anyhelp, I get error code XYZ when trying to create a remote connection to DB2 database using driver XYZ" you will also not get for detailed replies.
 
SpyderJ programming problems are nothing like car problems...
 
Well with the car analogy.

When I spoke to my dad before I bought my first car I asked him which make/model I should buy before making a decision. Based on his 35 years+ experience with cars, he owned or knew people who owned most of all the makes and could tell me which model/make would be best to start out with that gave the least problems.

Going back to programming:

If I see someone is using MS Access I will always advise against it and tell them to rather start using SQL 2005 Express as it's free and more powerful. I don't do that because I want to give a half assed answer, I do that because I learnt from experience:

a) It's a *** filebased database and you will sit with corruptions (WILL)
b) Starting to use SQL 2005 early on will set you up with more experience in T-SQL etc
c) Less hassle with debugging strange ODBC errors etc

(This is an example of advice I gave yesterday I think)

So yes. If you come to me and ask me how to debug the problem I will try and point you in the right direction AND give you advice on what to do as a better alternative that will save you a lot of heart ache and sleepless nights to come.

Oh, and a nugget of wisdom thrown at you randomly and a bit off topic

When working with dates, ALWAYS us dd-MMM-yyyy (29-Jan-2009) as a format. Universal understanding in any database and you won't ever get a date wrong (or in the "incorrect format")


Anyway, whatever car is giving you this many problems, get rid of it and buy a better one that will serve you best. ;)
 
SpyderJ said:
Hello there programmers.

I have a question for you all that reply to "help" people out.

If I have a problem with a car and you tell me to rather get another type or make cause then you will never have those problems, does that seem fair?

What I am trying to get at is that people that "help" people on forums like these sometimes fustrate new programmers by just not answering questions correctly.

I agree that it is a good idea to suggest new options for programmers but for my sake and everyone newbie dont post if you dont have a solution to the current problem or at least point them in the correct direct for their given problem.
I see this time and time again with people for whatever reason they have every coder adding their two cents worth on what they think piece of technology is better to do the job and no just help the guy out with his current problem.

There is nothing more disconcerting to get a email that your post has been replied to and you get someone has just told you that you need to redo everything and by changing a technology.

All I asking is if you are about to post please think about these points first, and not ask them to buy a different car.
Click to expand...

Generally when the "programmer" i hate that word. Tells you to use a different technology it is for your own good, obviously you might not be able to easily just switch entirely. But using ASP classic over asp.net these days is just plain dumb. "Programmers" evolve and keep ahead of the curve, and change with technological advancements well that is what they should do. As developers we are required to always dabble with the latest technologies to ensure our survival in the industry.

If you are a newbie to the development world then its understandable. But don't flame us when we give you advice on better technology to use that will ultimately save you hundreds if not thousands of man hours to get the job done.

I have no idea what post you are referring to in general, point it out and lets see what we said..
 
Programmer (according to me) is a person who loves to create things using some sort of code, and have a Anything-is-possible or Impossible-just-takes-a-little-longer attitude.
That's pretty much it.. so, you'll constantly be changing your style and technologies, depending on the task at hand. The sooner you get used to this, the better. :)
 
I have a rule and everybody in my comapny knows it. It states:

Do NOT come and ask me for help if you not show me where the problem occurs and proof to me you have searched on the web try and find out a solution for yourself.

People who just ask others when they have a problem loses out on so much. Normally, when I search for a solution for a problem I learn at least 2 or 3 new things along the way.
 
we have a list on the wall that clearly states you are not allowed to say:

1. Well it works on my machine.
2. It was fine yesterday
3. svn must have been corrupted.


will try find the rest.
 
SpyderJ, I refuse because I disagree.
A well formed question will receive a well targeted answer almost every time.
You're trying to lay blame on an extremely helpful community, unacceptable.
 
SpyderJ said:
If I have a problem with a car and you tell me to rather get another type or make cause then you will never have those problems, does that seem fair?
Click to expand...

Your analogy fails because to use another car analogy, some junior programmers or hobbists will try use a Ferrari on a 4x4 trail or drag race a tractor and then complain it doesn't work very well.

I do agree that there is a certain element of fanboism with regards to certain technologies and platforms, however as stated earlier in the thread, a well thought out question, that has been researched, will always get a good answer.

Plus, I like to think the forumites in this section do more good than harm :)
 
semaphore said:
we have a list on the wall that clearly states you are not allowed to say:

1. Well it works on my machine.
2. It was fine yesterday
3. svn must have been corrupted.


will try find the rest.
Click to expand...

lol, usually when my juniors start with those excuses I go "Well the computer tells you you're wrong, and you tell the computer what to do. So you're wrong..."

Yesterday had one of the guys tell me that SSL automatically just happens on the credit card authorization form after a complaint came through from a customer using FF that he didn't see the SSL.

IE worked but not FF so I told him there's a problem with how he redirects the page. Told me sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't.

I lol'ed.
 
Bcm said:
Your analogy fails because to use another car analogy, some junior programmers or hobbists will try use a Ferrari on a 4x4 trail or drag race a tractor and then complain it doesn't work very well.

I do agree that there is a certain element of fanboism with regards to certain technologies and platforms, however as stated earlier in the thread, a well thought out question, that has been researched, will always get a good answer.

Plus, I like to think the forumites in this section do more good than harm :)
Click to expand...

Oh and don't you just love the n00bs out there that posts on the forums, "I am having xyz problem, how do I fix it"

and then immediately after, "Nevermind, I figured it out"

And it's a problem you're looking the answer for. How against the nature of the internet is that? Very helpful... bah.... I can kill people like that. :p
 
SpyderJ said:
Hello there programmers.
Click to expand...
Hi.

SpyderJ said:
I have a question for you all that reply to "help" people out.
Click to expand...
Sure, go ahead.

SpyderJ said:
If I have a problem with a car and you tell me to rather get another type or make cause then you will never have those problems, does that seem fair?
Click to expand...
Well, that depends on whether you will get a good price for the one you have.

SpyderJ said:
What I am trying to get at is that people that "help" people on forums like these sometimes fustrate new programmers by just not answering questions correctly.
Click to expand...
Fustrate, huh? I remember when I was a young lad like yourself. I didn't check my spelling before posting either. Then I installed Firefox. But I digress. Please carry on.

SpyderJ said:
I agree that it is a good idea to suggest new options for programmers but for my sake and everyone newbie dont post if you dont have a solution to the current problem or at least point them in the correct direct for their given problem.
Click to expand...
Sure, if the newbie in question posts a decent question, along with what they have already tried (i.e. not "Please help me build my website for free", or "My program doesn't work").
SpyderJ said:
I see this time and time again with people for whatever reason they have every coder adding their two cents worth on what they think piece of technology is better to do the job and no just help the guy out with his current problem.
Click to expand...
That is the way of the world, my friend. To each his own.

SpyderJ said:
There is nothing more disconcerting to get a email that your post has been replied to and you get someone has just told you that you need to redo everything and by changing a technology.
Click to expand...
You need to understand that everyone has their own experiences in life, and will advise accordingly. The newbie in question is under no obligation to follow any advice. This forum is free - no warranty implied or otherwise.

SpyderJ said:
All I asking is if you are about to post please think about these points first, and not ask them to buy a different car.
Click to expand...
Wow, I was about to post, and I saw this. Now I have thought about it, and I don't think you need a new car. :D

Lighten up, dude. Newbies often undergo needling, advice on the best platform/technology/best practices, etc. and trust me - this forum is easy on noobs. Spell it with me: EZ. We're a light-hearted lot, and between us there is a wide range of experience on different platforms, in different languages, and different industries. We put it all on the line and share the wealth. You would be stupid to wave it all off because of suggestions that you try another direction.
 
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