Higher taxes for the rich

[warchylde]

True, but otherwise?

Fark all - that's what you get - and the first one that says we have decent roads will be beaten with an invisible umbrella... (and now they are going to tol the living bejeezus out of the JHB ppl to pay for road maintenance and similar stuff is planned for N1 and N2

 

[TJ99]

Recently returned from Berlin. Waiters and street cleaners start off at 1500 euro p/m, engineers & doctors start off at 2500 euro p/m. Everyone gets taxed to bits, (50-60% is not uncommon, all of it mandatory). It's usually the same ones who complain about the "exorbitant" taxes in SA that always talk about relocating to Germany, England, etc.

Greedy teabaggers will always complain

Oh gee, ok then...

How many potholes did you see in Unter den Linden? How long was the power off? How many weeks' worth of rubbish bags were stacked up in Alexanderplatz? How many government-supported strikes were going on every month? How many politicians went scot-free after being caught and convicted of fraud, and with zero public outcry? How many times were any trains late/burned down/on strike? How long were you there and by how much did electricity prices increase? How many police officers shot people in cold blood and got away with it? How many took bribes? How many times was your luggage broken into at their airport? Your car? How many government tenders are awarded to family members or friends or politicians, despite not meeting the requirements? How much do citizens pay for their healthcare? Or their university studies?

And so on and so forth. There you get what you pay for.

 

[Nod]

Recently returned from Berlin. Waiters and street cleaners start off at 1500 euro p/m, engineers & doctors start off at 2500 euro p/m. Everyone gets taxed to bits, (50-60% is not uncommon, all of it mandatory). It's usually the same ones who complain about the "exorbitant" taxes in SA that always talk about relocating to Germany, England, etc.

Greedy teabaggers will always complain

I work in Germany at the moment. If you are single, you will be on tax class 5 (actually class 6, if you have not registered yet), which is the highest. Tax will then be around 45%.
Because I'm married, my wife, who is not working, go onto tax class 5, and I'm on tax class 3. My tax is around the 40% mark, probably less.
For that I get medical, only pay 10Euros every 3 months, no matter how often you are sick. Kids have free school, and can use the trains free until they are 12.
Tertiary studies you only pay the registration fees, the rest is free.
For 63Euros a month, you can use any public transport, day or night, as much as you like.
Some info on the tax classes: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohnsteuerklasse

 

[warchylde]

I work in Germany at the moment. If you are single, you will be on tax class 5 (actually class 6, if you have not registered yet), which is the highest. Tax will then be around 45%.
Because I'm married, my wife, who is not working, go onto tax class 5, and I'm on tax class 3. My tax is around the 40% mark, probably less.
For that I get medical, only pay 10Euros every 3 months, no matter how often you are sick. Kids have free school, and can use the trains free until they are 12.
Tertiary studies you only pay the registration fees, the rest is free.
For 63Euros a month, you can use any public transport, day or night, as much as you like.
Some info on the tax classes: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohnsteuerklasse

Und Zat ist vi I luv ze jeermans

 

[w1z4rd]

Higher taxes for the rich? Brilliant idea. Grow the middle class, tax those that consume more resources more.

 

[w1z4rd]

I work in Germany at the moment. If you are single, you will be on tax class 5 (actually class 6, if you have not registered yet), which is the highest. Tax will then be around 45%.
Because I'm married, my wife, who is not working, go onto tax class 5, and I'm on tax class 3. My tax is around the 40% mark, probably less.
For that I get medical, only pay 10Euros every 3 months, no matter how often you are sick. Kids have free school, and can use the trains free until they are 12.
Tertiary studies you only pay the registration fees, the rest is free.
For 63Euros a month, you can use any public transport, day or night, as much as you like.
Some info on the tax classes: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lohnsteuerklasse

Welfare states offer great support for families.

Recently returned from Berlin. Waiters and street cleaners start off at 1500 euro p/m, engineers & doctors start off at 2500 euro p/m. Everyone gets taxed to bits, (50-60% is not uncommon, all of it mandatory). It's usually the same ones who complain about the "exorbitant" taxes in SA that always talk about relocating to Germany, England, etc.

Greedy teabaggers will always complain

QFT

 

[warchylde]

Welfare states offer great support for families.

QFT

Yes but there are conditions attached. You cant simply demand and demand....

Sent from my Desire HD using MyBroadband Android App

 

[superskully]

Recently returned from Berlin. Waiters and street cleaners start off at 1500 euro p/m, engineers & doctors start off at 2500 euro p/m. Everyone gets taxed to bits, (50-60% is not uncommon, all of it mandatory). It's usually the same ones who complain about the "exorbitant" taxes in SA that always talk about relocating to Germany, England, etc.

Greedy teabaggers will always complain

Ha ha, troll.
I lived in germany for awhile, though a student.
Tax is more like 45%. Though tax on somethings like fuel are much higher, thing is their have a functioning transportation system.
Sin tax is also high.
But many things are cheaper, clothes, electronics, cars, broadband.
The things that are expensive are things that are precious - like energy.

 

[superskully]

Also, i dont think many understand what a proper functioning transport system in a safe society is.
It really is something different.

You dont need a car, yes, seriously.

 

[boramk]

The problem here sin't rich people paying higher taxes, in theory progressive taxes are the way to go.

Our government is too corrupt to handle the extra money, they almost don't deserve it.

 

[TheHiveMind]

Define rich. I'm tired of intentional ambiguity.

 

[warchylde]

The problem here sin't rich people paying higher taxes, in theory progressive taxes are the way to go.

Our government is too corrupt to handle the extra money, they almost don't deserve it.

and therein lies the crux

 

[WilD_CaT]

http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/19/no...ness-washington-world-happiest-countries.html

Didn't watch the video, will tonight, but here are a list of the worlds happiest countries.



I have never been there so I won't know, it is just a survey that Forbes reported on.

By any standard that looks at the entire state from a holistic POV, all those countries are some of the most free-market orientated countries in the world. They have always had the welfare side or socialist side but they have not always been wealthy or better off. They only started becoming wealthy due to pro-market measures.

There is an extensive research done on countries. The US is historically one of the wealthiest because of its relatively free market outlook, which has been slipping in the last 100 years or so.

The Chinese have moved extensively from an almost entirely centrally planned economy (Near 0% economic freedom) to around 50-60% and they have increased freedom roughly 2% per year according to some index ratings, and economic growth in China has kept on growing at 6% and above in equal measure.

Socialism is simply the term used to define government control or ownership of the means of production. The dichotomy is private or individual ownership of the means of production.

When states take control over something, unless it is freely given by the individual, it is theft. More extreme socialism necessarily leads one to communism, but there is no different between socialism and communism.

The only difference between Sweden, the US and China etc. is merely the degree of socialism/capitalism implemented.

A country which might have a a state providing welfare, with lots of capitalism and economic freedom is not a "Socialist" state. That would imply massive implementation of socialist policies, these states do not have that.

Most of their policies are regarded as hallmarks of economic freedom.

 

[warchylde]

By any standard that looks at the entire state from a holistic POV, all those countries are some of the most free-market orientated countries in the world. They have always had the welfare side or socialist side but they have not always been wealthy or better off. They only started becoming wealthy due to pro-market measures.

There is an extensive research done on countries. The US is historically one of the wealthiest because of its relatively free market outlook, which has been slipping in the last 100 years or so.

The Chinese have moved extensively from an almost entirely centrally planned economy (Near 0% economic freedom) to around 50-60% and they have increased freedom roughly 2% per year according to some index ratings, and economic growth in China has kept on growing at 6% and above in equal measure.

Socialism is simply the term used to define government control or ownership of the means of production. The dichotomy is private or individual ownership of the means of production.

When states take control over something, unless it is freely given by the individual, it is theft. More extreme socialism necessarily leads one to communism, but there is no different between socialism and communism.

The only difference between Sweden, the US and China etc. is merely the degree of socialism/capitalism implemented.

A country which might have a a state providing welfare, with lots of capitalism and economic freedom is not a "Socialist" state. That would imply massive implementation of socialist policies, these states do not have that.

Most of their policies are regarded as hallmarks of economic freedom.

Thank you for putting it across so eloquently - I didn't know how to express it accurately enough but you did it for me.

 

[WilD_CaT]

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

Rev William JH Boetcker

 

[noxibox]

Those who can, will take their business elsewhere and funnel as much money as possible out of the country. The use of tax loopholes will increase. The poor won't benefit from it.

I always hear this. Where are they going to go with their business? Furthermore anyone with any decent amount of money would already be maximising the use loopholes.

 

[grok]

I say **** the poor .. what have they ever done for me?

 

[w1z4rd]

I say **** the poor .. what have they ever done for me?

Im sure they say the same about the rich

However, at the end of the day, either you find a way to grow your middle class and pull people outta poverty, or expect crime to come a knocking.

 

[warchylde]

I always hear this. Where are they going to go with their business? Furthermore anyone with any decent amount of money would already be maximising the use loopholes.

Uhm actually many of them are already in discussion with other 3rd world country's, especially ones in South America.

 

[TJ99]

Im sure they say the same about the rich

However, at the end of the day, either you find a way to grow your middle class and pull people outta poverty, or expect crime to come a knocking.

You really don't get it, do you? They're trying to do the exact opposite of growing the middle class. When this government says "Tax the rich more" , they mean "Tax the middle class more". The ANC defines "rich" as someone earning something like R9000 a month. That's pretty damn poor actually, so anyone who is middle class in the real world, will be hit by more taxes, which will then be funneled to "empower" poor people like Tokyo Sexwhale, Malema, or Zuma.

They're not talking about the CEO's getting a few million in bonusses each year. (You know, actual rich people)