HIV question.

Z

zulgin

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Can someone please explain to me what the government is trying to achieve by promoting circumcision? Currently they are spreading the idea that it helps to combat aids, maybe I'm uninformed here, but how exactly is this going to stop the spread of aids if I sleep with multiply partners while practizing unprotected sex at all?

Shouldn't they be handing out condoms and let people face the reality that you can't just sleep around unprotected?
 
Yeah its fail. People are going to be like.. "well I'm uncircumcised now let me have a lot of sex since I have a less chance, maybe even none of getting HIV"
 
There is a slightly lower risk for men going in without the hood but you are 100% correct in my opinion, seems a moot point people shout be condomising anyway.

There is a lot of pressure from international agencies such as USAID(who fund a huge amount of our HIV/Aids program) so I wouldn't be so quick to blame government.
 
Is there also maybe a side motive here to get the circumcision done in a clean and sterile environment. Every year I am astounded by the number of deaths due to infection after circumcision!!!!!

Of course 1) abstaining and 2) still the best preventatives for any STD. This is just idiot logic and I am sure some connected politician is making a ton of cash out of supplying the medical supplies for this...
 
Circumcision does not prevent HIV, but being uncircumcised could facilitate a greater chance of infection according to this general article: source : http://aids.about.com/od/hivprevention/a/circumcision.htm

-----------------
How Does Circumcision Help Prevent HIV Transmission?

The majority of men who are HIV positive become infected through the penis during sexual contact.

Recent studies have proven conclusively that uncircumcised men are at a much greater risk of becoming infected with HIV than men who are circumcised. In some studies, infection rate was 50 percent less in circumcised men.

Experts offered several possible reasons why circumcision offers protection against HIV infection:

* the inner surface of the foreskin has a very high concentration of cells containing HIV receptors that act has a portal into the body when exposed to HIV-infected bodily fluids such as semen.

* the foreskin traps HIV in a moist environment near the surface of the penis, allowing the HIV to live longer

* small foreskin tears that may occur during intercourse provide an entryway for the virus.

------------- ends general article

However in this scientific study:
source: http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/info/HIVStatement.html

----------------

- Grosskurth found more HIV infection in circumcised men.

- Barongo et al. found no evidence that lack of circumcision is a risk factor for HIV infection.

- A study from India found little difference between circumcised and non-circumcised men in the conjugal relationship.

- A study carried out in South Africa found that male circumcision offered only a slight protective effect.

- A study carried out among American naval personnel found no difference in the incidence of HIV infection between non-circumcised and circumcised men.

---------------
Who is Heiner Grosskurth, MD, PhD, DTMH ?

Heiner Grosskurth is Director of the MRC/UVRI Uganda Research Unit on AIDS and Professor of Epidemiology and International Health at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM).

Baronga

Now, I have to wonder who did the study in South Africa, and got 'slight' results no one else got ? :wtf:
 
The only thing the government is show-casing by spewing these ludicrous "facts" around for a "healthier" South Africa is their inability to run a country.

(NB, the following I learned from playing Sim games and general common knowledge/trivia)

By ignoring (and being ignorant to) the health of your population, you decrease the amount of work-force you have at your disposal. Decrease in work-force mean's less tax. Less tax means you either have to cut your budget severely or tax more. More tax leads to a lower quality of life, which in turn snowballs and leaves you with less of a work-force in the end due to health issues (as people won't be able to afford health care)

Same goes for the age of your population. If you don't have "x" number of babies in a year, the projection of your work-force being able to carry out their tasks "z" years down the line are diminished severely. Your average age in the population gets older and in the end you have a bunch of retiree's on pension with nobody working to keep the big bad machine going.

Yet, here we are. 15 years down the line, several hundred AIDS conferences. Several hundred scientists proving AIDS and HIV exists. Economists warning about the ripple affect this disease will have on our population 50 years from now (which could literally END a government), yet.... ignorantly they let you know "Just take a shower, JZ swears by it" and thousands will die because of it. The short-sightedness and stupidity is truly astonishing.

But it's not because I'm smart-ish, or have a (public school) education up to matric that makes me wrong. It's because I'm white. Thank God racism is dead hey!
 
I'm sorry, but this sounds even more retarded than 'shower after sex will prevent aids' ala JZ. Really, think about it logically... just cutting off some skin is going to have NO influence on the HIV-infected fluids which are transferred during unprotected sex
 
fragtion said:
I'm sorry, but this sounds even more retarded than 'shower after sex will prevent aids' ala JZ. Really, think about it logically... just cutting off some skin is going to have NO influence on the HIV-infected fluids which are transferred during unprotected sex
Click to expand...

Apparently soft skin underneath the foreskin hardens after circumcision reducing places where HIV can enter the body. (The science is legit)

The problem is that this is being touted as a solution to what is a lifestyle problem.

All that's going to happen is that it's going to take notionally longer for a population of circumsized men to become HIV positive, unless they change their lifestyle.

Basically it's like playing russian roulette with an 8 chambered gun rather than a six shooter. You can still get a bullet in the first round, and you will eventually get it. Only way not to, is to stop playing.

Of course the ANC's response to this science basically makes it the same as playing russian roulette with a glock.
 
This nonsense is being pushed around the world, including by WHO, based on very weak scientific evidence. I have to wonder at the enthusiasm with which this is being embraced. What's worse is the campaign is influencing parents to do this to their children. Would they be equally keen to promote female circumcision? Would someone even be able to get funding to study it?

wrathex said:
Now, I have to wonder who did the study in South Africa, and got 'slight' results no one else got ? :wtf:
Click to expand...
Not no-one. There have been others that found what appeared to be a minor protective effect, but these studies have serious flaws.
 
waynegohl said:
tell me then how a man that is not circumcised contract the virus unless the partner has it. If the partner has it you still have a 50/50 chance of getting it whether to circumcised or not.
Click to expand...

I just dont understand the question I think. You asking if HIV lies dormant in everybody? What makes you think that meneer?
 
ocleroux said:
I just dont understand the question I think. You asking if HIV lies dormant in everybody? What makes you think that meneer?
Click to expand...

The majority of men who are HIV positive become infected through the penis during sexual contact.

Recent studies have proven conclusively that uncircumcised men are at a much greater risk of becoming infected with HIV than men who are circumcised. In some studies, infection rate was 50 percent less in circumcised men.

these lines mean the partner has the virus already.
 
waynegohl said:
The majority of men who are HIV positive become infected through the penis during sexual contact.

Recent studies have proven conclusively that uncircumcised men are at a much greater risk of becoming infected with HIV than men who are circumcised. In some studies, infection rate was 50 percent less in circumcised men.

these lines mean the partner has the virus already.
Click to expand...

Obviously, otherwise how would you contract the virus?
Geez, I am confused
 
waynegohl said:
tell me then how a man that is not circumcised contract the virus unless the partner has it. If the partner has it you still have a 50/50 chance of getting it whether to circumcised or not.
Click to expand...

Your chances of contracting HIV are about 5% (male) and 10% (Female) in a normal situation. You actually have to really try hard to get it.... we are just a determined population. Being circumcised decreases that risk by 1% so in theory should have quite an impact on the infection rate.

I think its a bad theory but I do think its better than those poor kids getting their dicks chopped off in the bush!
 
waynegohl said:
The majority of men who are HIV positive become infected through the penis during sexual contact.

Recent studies have proven conclusively that uncircumcised men are at a much greater risk of becoming infected with HIV than men who are circumcised. In some studies, infection rate was 50 percent less in circumcised men.

these lines mean the partner has the virus already.
Click to expand...

Oh...ok...think I see what you mean....but no...the HIV virus does not ly dormant in everybody. You have to become infected with it. And even though you might not experience symptoms, does not mean it aint there.

There are some virus that do ly dormant in many many people. I think HPV is one of them.
 
yeah but you hear them talk about circumcision this and circumcision that what if the partner is a woman how about doing something down there?
 
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