Honda Elevate vs Suzuki Grand Vitara

PCWARITM said:
I took both of these for a drive to get a feel for something that my wife will enjoy driving.

The Honda is a hard no. The Suzuki a maybe.

Honda has the 1.5 i-VTECH engine with 89 kW, the GV has a 1.5 NA with 77kw. I tried the Elegance and GLX respectively (higher trim).

On paper the Honda is a better buy nd it's R50k off the advertised price of R430 currently on special at R380k.

The interior has a near premium feel and looks good, but the major let downs are the CVT and cabin noise. I thought our Brezza was noisy on the highway, but the Honda is disappointingly worse. You hear both the engine and the tyres. It reminds me of my old Kadett Cub from 1990. The CVT means despite being a slightly more powerful engine, the latency is worse. It genuinely feels more sluggish.

The panoramic sunroof on the Grand Vitara makes the cabin hot, the cover is flimsy and doesn't stop the heat. I would genuinely get rid of it if it were an option on the GLX but it's standard. We would deffo go with a ceramic tint to eliminate the extra UV and heat. Also nice trim on the inside so not bad car. Could do with a bit more power, the 1.5 is cool on the Brezza but the GV is a bit more sluggish with it but still responsive compared to the Honda.

Next to test are the Corolla cross and VW T-Cross. Unless the Hyundai Creta is on a massive discount I won't bother even testing one... overpriced for the segment.
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Genuinely asking, what latency are you talking about?

I have a CVT and love the thing because I can control how much the revs is with the petrol pedal.

Basically feels sometimes like a manual without worrying about a clutch.
 
yeah CVT's are shyte, it's the reason I'd have to look at other brands if I replace my manual Subaru XV because they stupidly made everything they produce with CVT

might be worth having a look at the Mazda CX-30 as well fwiw
 
PCWARITM said:
Just drive a torque converter and see. There are no gears in the CVT, it's all simulated. The latency is well documented and referred to as the rubber band effect.
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I had to do some testing. The only time there is latency is if I put my foot down to the floor.

Same type of latency I would get when driving a manual.

This never happens during normal driving and does not bother me passing somebody.

I think people reads garbage and then do placebo effect. Once somebody believe something they will experience it regardless if it's real.

I just call it sheep sindrome, but I am more immune to the effect because I don't do group validation.

Anyway, hope you find a nice car.
I think they should have added adaptive cruise control to the Honda which would have made it a much nicer option.
 
My Honda (admittedly a CRV) has a CVT transmission. It works very well. In town driving I get 7.4 litres/100km. It has a 2.0 litre engine
 
PCWARITM said:
I must admit I was expecting better economy from the Honda CVT but it seems not when compared with the Suzuki.
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Its about 7 liters per 100km.
I have not reset my meter in a long time.

If I drive 80km/h on highways then it's about 5 liters per 100km.

I have the BR-V. Bought it over the Suzuki because it got a higher safety rating.

7 seats are Handy sometimes.

Hondas feels a bit to expensive but I got mine with 5000km on the clock for 100k less.

The car also can't use trailers and does not have a roof rail which is a bit annoying.

So can't blame anybody for not buying Honda when they are not trying to compete.
 
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PCWARITM said:
Call it what you like. Unless you can show me history, I'm not interested.
Chery's history: Came to SA and sold cheap scrap cars. Left South Africa.
Now they're back with better quality but they've only been here for 5 years.

That is not brand snobbery, it's legitimate concern. Maybe they will hang around for another 10 years... But until then, nah thanks.

"J.D. Power’s China index shows Chinese cars average Around 180 problems per 100 vehicles—not yet matching traditional brands like Toyota, which hover at 60–80 issues ."

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I'm struggling to find this J.D Power China index - what I find is it saying the Chinese market is evaluated differently.

And, for example, rates Chery higher than (GAC) Honda.

1769411124131.png

And we all know of their previous disaster here in SA - but that's old news. The new news is Chery buying Nissan's plant - not likely they are going to leave now, is it.

My only real concern with buying a Chinese car now is how frequently they update their models - they are on a mission when it comes to continuous learning and improving their vehicles. What's already good becomes better; hence my reluctance.

And to end off, there is one Chinese car in the World car of the year finalist list - just like Toyota.

The number of Korean cars is rather impressive, though.

1769411349570.png
 
PCWARITM said:
Any of those on our roads?
Nice list.

5 years is just not enough for my money. I'll let other's be the guinea pigs. I might buy a BYD in 10 years time. Who knows.
There's also principle involved. Chinese companies have no problem flaunting copyright, in fact they're well known for it. I'm not keen to support that economy if I can avoid it. Of course it's very hard to avoid.
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So for the next 10 years you will pay more and get less for your money? And the brands, who's car shapes have been copied, have quite gotten over it to make money with joint-ventures in China and selling their vehicles there, so it doesn't make sense that you should take a moral stand on their behalf.

But hey, they are your rands.
 
PCWARITM said:
Just drive a torque converter and see. There are no gears in the CVT, it's all simulated. The latency is well documented and referred to as the rubber band effect.
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Barely and in day or two you'll be used to it, it’s a total none issue.
 
chrisc said:
My Honda (admittedly a CRV) has a CVT transmission. It works very well. In town driving I get 7.4 litres/100km. It has a 2.0 litre engine
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Which year/model is that?
I have heard some of the CRV have amazing fuel economy like that, relative to the vehicle size and engine, I think it’s the Gen 3 petrol CRVs.
 
PCWARITM said:
The moral stand goes way, way beyond vehicles, and your assumption that I'm getting more for less is unproven which is exactly why I'm reluctant. In 10 years we'll re-look at this, for now, I'm happy to pay more up front.

You got that!
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Unproven? What? You been living under a rock that is living under a bigger rock?

Anyway, happy spending ;)
 
PCWARITM said:
So another thing is local dealership ratings are important. Chery might be brilliant nationally, but locally they might be poor when it comes to service. My Honda dealership ratings are poor (2.7). Suzuki are fantastic (4.5)
Chery aren't the worst (3.9). I also read the bad reviews to get a feel for whether there's a customer or dealership issue and how serious it is - e.g. I don't care if you give them 1 star for being unable to drop you off at the office, but if they are consistently turning down warranty claims.... different story.

"Let me share a frustrating tale of a Chery Tiggo 8 Pro Max owner's journey through customer service challenges.
It all began one early morning when I arrived at Chery Century City at the crack of dawn - 6:45 AM to be precise. I was the first customer there, hopeful for a quick resolution to my car's misfire issue. Little did I know this would be the start of a lengthy ordeal.
After waiting nearly seven hours that first day, I received disappointing news - their diagnostic machine wasn't working and needed an update. I had to take my car back home with the same problem I came in with.
A few days later, after confirming their equipment was fixed, I returned for a second attempt. Another full day spent waiting, only for them to tell me they'd simply scanned the car and sent the information to their technical team. More waiting followed.
The plot thickened when they finally discovered rust on the injector tips. Instead of helping me through the warranty process, the service advisor dropped a bombshell - they wouldn't even submit a warranty claim because they were convinced it wouldn't be covered. They blamed it on water damage, suggesting contaminated fuel from petrol stations was the culprit.
When I tried to reason with the workshop manager, things went from bad to worse. He was dismissive and even tried to draw parallels with an unrelated case about engine bay washing. To add insult to injury, he suggested using fuel additives - which directly contradicts the car's manual!
Here I am, a first-time Chery owner with their top-of-the-range model, just two years into ownership, feeling completely let down by a warranty that seems more like a marketing tool than actual protection. The promise of premium service and warranty coverage has turned into a disappointing story of bureaucratic roadblocks and customer frustration.
This experience has left me questioning not just the service center's commitment to customer satisfaction, but the very value of Chery's warranty promises."

"My Tiggo 8 they said bad fuel got into my spark plugs and thats why I had to get it replaced which I had to pay for. Poor excuse for things that should be covered seen many stories with the same excuse "bad fuel"

"I went through the same issue with my tiggo 4 pro, everything becomes your cost and dealerships famous line it's not going to be covered by warranty, I had to pay for plugs as they were convinced it's fuel contimated, poor service let this brand down, thankfully I will be letting go of my 1 this week suspension noise has been there for the past several months was told they need to order ball joints been 4 weeks and they still waiting for it, also vehicle is 11 months old and breaks squeak was told I need to pay r950 for them to clean the pads and put back... utter nonsense but 11 months and 13000kms of misery on a brand new car is pathetic plus resale value is another story never the less I will be taking a knock of r98000 and going back to toyota, I even tried trading the vehicle at vw and no1 wants it states chinese vehicles don't sell pre-owned and stated if I desperately want it traded they will offer 190k. Highest offer was 220k even we buy cars offered 200k."

"Ebrahiem Vin Good morning. We appreciate you letting us know, we’ve sent you a message and will get this sorted ASAP."

"Chery South Africa Chery Cares you called me yesterday morning (11am) and said you will speak to the dealer and sort it out and get back to me. No call yesterday back. I called this morning to try to get hold of escalation consultant Lucia from customer care who promised to take of this and get back to me and they were not available.
It is almost 24 hours with no update.
Concerning service"

"Morning. What was the outcome with your car?" "Billie-Jean Kilian Hello Billie-Jean Kilian, I had to pay to have the injectors cleaned. costed me about 3k. spent an additional 6k on flushing out the fuel line and adding in some additives. was also told to add fuel cleaner additive in for the next few full tanks. was probably a total of 6 if not more. remember this happened some time ago. recently (3 weeks ago) I found out where the first mechanic that worked on my car by century city was working, his name was Hilton. after calling multiple dealership. I found out that he works by group1 chery in kuils river. you can read my post of the shootout and what was done. and my car was all fixed in 3 hours, drives like a new car"
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tl; dr.

I too can go on the internet and find a horror story about a particular brand.
 
Splinter said:
You will never, ever be able to say this again after you drive a vehicle with a ZF-8 speed box.
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That's not going to change anything, CVT's are a pleasure to drive, sure you may get better gearboxes or gearboxes that feel different but that doesn't change the fact that CVT's are great gearboxes. Near everyone moans about about them initially and then soon realise they are fine, it's just a different feel/experience.
 
KleinBoontjie said:
How will value depreciation compare in 5 years? Will it still be more for less?
How will reliability compare over 300 000km?
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There was actually an article somewhere already about depreciation. Although somewhat worse than the more established brands, it was nowhere near the doom and gloom the ani-Chinese brigade go on about.

@FiestaST - didn't you post a link somewhere?

Edit: and how many people really get anywhere near 300 000km's? Bit of a straw man.
 
airborne said:
That's not going to change anything, CVT's are a pleasure to drive, sure you may get better gearboxes or gearboxes that feel different but that doesn't change the fact that CVT's are great gearboxes. Near everyone moans about about them initially and then soon realise they are fine, it's just a different feel/experience.
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I have never driven a vehicle with one, but I have read, many, many times, about how people (and car journalists) dislike CVT boxes. Often they refer to the noise as well.

Conversely, if you search up opinions about the ZF, you will get the complete opposite.

Have you driven a car with a ZF?
 
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