HotBot

PRP said:
How do you measure the water temperature with the Astute?
I just purchased the new Geyserwise with Wifi as I found it to be the only "Out the Box" safe solution to control the Geyser based on its temperature with a mechanical safety cut off.
My idea is to heat the water during the day to 75DegC with with Solar and use it as an energy store. Only heating again in the early mornings to 50Deg if needed.
Click to expand...
You'll need a separate temp sensor.

A few have done that with Sonoff temp sensors. I recall @Dolby considering it.

But others actually did it. Just cant recall who.
 
Saba'a said:
You'll need a separate temp sensor.

A few have done that with Sonoff temp sensors. I recall @Dolby considering it.

But others actually did it. Just cant recall who.
Click to expand...
Yea - I didn't do it ...

But like @Saba'a says a few people have done it by, um, shoving the sensor through a little hole in the geyser . Someone showed me the picture - but never checked or did my own
 
Dolby said:
Yea - I didn't do it ...

But like @Saba'a says a few people have done it by, um, shoving the sensor through a little hole in the geyser . Someone showed me the picture - but never checked or did my own
Click to expand...
The geyserwise thermostat comes with an existing temp probe which one can repurpose with a sonoff TH.
 
Speedster said:
The geyserwise thermostat comes with an existing temp probe which one can repurpose with a sonoff TH.
Click to expand...
I see that. Trying to understand the value of adding a Sonoff if you can just use the Geyserwise with the Tuya Wi-Fi module in it. I have not tried yet but understand you can add the Tuya device to Home Assistant.
 
Remove thermostat, insert solid-state temperature sensor into tube with some silicone grease or thermal compound. Its easy folks. No need to make any holes which could come back to bite later when they develop a leak.

Drilling a hole into the cylinder is a no-no. There's a glass lining inside and drilling into that will cause it to shear off in that spot and then that's the place it will develop a hole or decide to go bye-bye and send a torrent of hot water all over your furniture. (I speak from my younger days and my experiences then).

Heating the water to 75 is a bit extreme, the highest temperature for most thermostats is 60. The higher temps will drastically reduce the lifespan.

Also, another thing that eats away at efficiency is the build-up of sedimentary scale, so every 2-3 years, get a plumber to remove the element and suck out all the "corn flakes" at the bottom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rh1
PRP said:
I see that. Trying to understand the value of adding a Sonoff if you can just use the Geyserwise with the Tuya Wi-Fi module in it. I have not tried yet but understand you can add the Tuya device to Home Assistant.
Click to expand...
The sonoff option would be if you don't have a geyserwise installed.
 
PaulMurkin said:
Remove thermostat, insert solid-state temperature sensor into tube with some silicone grease or thermal compound. Its easy folks. No need to make any holes which could come back to bite later when they develop a leak.

Drilling a hole into the cylinder is a no-no. There's a glass lining inside and drilling into that will cause it to shear off in that spot and then that's the place it will develop a hole or decide to go bye-bye and send a torrent of hot water all over your furniture. (I speak from my younger days and my experiences then).

Heating the water to 75 is a bit extreme, the highest temperature for most thermostats is 60. The higher temps will drastically reduce the lifespan.

Also, another thing that eats away at efficiency is the build-up of sedimentary scale, so every 2-3 years, get a plumber to remove the element and suck out all the "corn flakes" at the bottom.
Click to expand...
Understand you can just put a temp sensor in the hole my worry is you have no mechanical thermostat to stop the heating if something goes crazy on the Sonoff.
I didn’t know 75 was dangerous, I thought 65 was the standard temp geysers are set to. Maybe I will start with 70 ;)
 
PRP said:
Understand you can just put a temp sensor in the hole my worry is you have no mechanical thermostat to stop the heating if something goes crazy on the Sonoff.
I didn’t know 75 was dangerous, I thought 65 was the standard temp geysers are set to. Maybe I will start with 70 ;)
Click to expand...
Hence why the geyserwise thermostat
 
  • Like
Reactions: PRP
PRP said:
Understand you can just put a temp sensor in the hole my worry is you have no mechanical thermostat to stop the heating if something goes crazy on the Sonoff.
I didn’t know 75 was dangerous, I thought 65 was the standard temp geysers are set to. Maybe I will start with 70 ;)
Click to expand...
When I was in Cape Town I set mine to 55, it was set to 45 by the previous owner because of P*eskom's long history of overcharging in the area (R10k bills are the order of the day there), but at 45, it was not so nice in winter, the shower was not nice.
 
Speedster said:
Hence why the geyserwise thermostat
Click to expand...
I didn’t know you could buy it on its own, should have checked. I see it’s around R300, coupled with a Sonoff makes a very cheap solution. I paid R1500 for the Geyerwise TSE kit with the Wi-Fi module.
 
PRP said:
Understand you can just put a temp sensor in the hole my worry is you have no mechanical thermostat to stop the heating if something goes crazy on the Sonoff.
I didn’t know 75 was dangerous, I thought 65 was the standard temp geysers are set to. Maybe I will start with 70 ;)
Click to expand...
You do, there's a valve on the outlet that will open if the temperature exceeds 80... at 75 that valve starts to trickle already. I forget the name of that relief valve but its required by law and it has a rod that protrudes into the tank to measure the temperature and let go if the temperature (and pressure) exceeds limits.

Thermostats can and do fail sometimes too you know.
 
PaulMurkin said:
You do, there's a valve on the outlet that will open if the temperature exceeds 80... at 75 that valve starts to trickle already. I forget the name of that relief valve but its required by law and it has a rod that protrudes into the tank to measure the temperature and let go if the temperature (and pressure) exceeds limits.

Thermostats can and do fail sometimes too you know.
Click to expand...

Please don't do this. This is REALLY bad and risky advice that is totally against regulations. By removing the mechanical thermostat, you are contravening SANS 181 and SANS 10252-1 by not having an approved thermostat. You lose both the mechanical cutoff and the failsafe thermal cut off. The safety valve is NOT an alternative to these safety measures. You will void the warranty of your geyser, and be liable for any damage or harm that results.
 
TechFTW said:
Please don't do this. This is REALLY bad and risky advice that is totally against regulations. By removing the mechanical thermostat, you are contravening SANS 181 and SANS 10252-1 by not having an approved thermostat. You lose both the mechanical cutoff and the failsafe thermal cut off. The safety valve is NOT an alternative to these safety measures. You will void the warranty of your geyser, and be liable for any damage or harm that results.
Click to expand...
When I lived in Cape Town, the thermostat was a removable, electronic module ergo it was a distance away from the cylinder to avoid it getting wet when the leaks came or perhaps when the geyser decided to go off like a rocket (which has happened before in that particular property)

So now you're coming with SANS standards... You barely understand your own snake oil but want to lecture me about SANS codes of practice.

Mechanical thermostats are not nearly as reliable as you think. I've replaced many... many with the contacts burnt shut... and water pissing out the pressure relief valve at the top.

Geyserwise did it... its an approved product, so just use that stuff.

As for SONOFF going crazy, that is what happens when Arduino **** is used in production. Arduino is a platform for homebrew amateurs. There's a reason why real products have development costs and also why they're coded in more suitable languages such as ANSI C.

At the end of the day, most developers don't know how to code defensively anyway, they never had exposure to MISRA-C or any other safety critical coding methodologies.
 
PaulMurkin said:
When I lived in Cape Town, the thermostat was a removable, electronic module ergo it was a distance away from the cylinder to avoid it getting wet when the leaks came or perhaps when the geyser decided to go off like a rocket (which has happened before in that particular property)

So now you're coming with SANS standards...

Mechanical thermostats are not nearly as reliable as you think. I've replaced many... many with the contacts burnt shut... and water pissing out the pressure relief valve at the top
Click to expand...

I can't speak to what was done in the past, especially since I have no idea how long ago this was.

Agree that mechanical thermostats fail often. One piece of evidence to back this up is that they are warranted for 1 year vs the typical 5 year geyser warranty.

That is exactly why mechanical thermostats are required to have a secondary thermal cutoff. If you get rid of the thermostat, you get rid of this protection and turn your geyser into a rocket, as you describe.
 
PaulMurkin said:
When I lived in Cape Town, the thermostat was a removable, electronic module ergo it was a distance away from the cylinder to avoid it getting wet when the leaks came or perhaps when the geyser decided to go off like a rocket (which has happened before in that particular property)

So now you're coming with SANS standards... You barely understand your own snake oil but want to lecture me about SANS codes of practice.

Mechanical thermostats are not nearly as reliable as you think. I've replaced many... many with the contacts burnt shut... and water pissing out the pressure relief valve at the top.

Geyserwise did it... its an approved product, so just use that stuff.

As for SONOFF going crazy, that is what happens when Arduino **** is used in production. Arduino is a platform for homebrew amateurs. There's a reason why real products have development costs and also why they're coded in more suitable languages such as ANSI C.

At the end of the day, most developers don't know how to code defensively anyway, they never had exposure to MISRA-C or any other safety critical coding methodologies.
Click to expand...

LOL!!! Editing your response to backtrack and throw in a few jabs to distract from your ludicrous comments. Nice one.

Yes, geyserwise thermostat is an approved product WHEN combined with a geyserwise controller (it's approved as an electronic control system). And they do have a secondary thermal cutoff on their thermostat. Not some macguyver temp sensor which will turn your geyser into a bomb.
 
TechFTW said:
LOL!!! Editing your response to backtrack and throw in a few jabs to distract from your ludicrous comments. Nice one.

Yes, geyserwise thermostat is an approved product WHEN combined with a geyserwise controller (it's approved as an electronic control system). And they do have a secondary thermal cutoff on their thermostat. Not some macguyver temp sensor which will turn your geyser into a bomb.
Click to expand...
@Moosedrool... here's what "unhinged" looks like... I finally have an example to show you.

He claims I edited my post , and I am backtracking... (there is more to this of course, including a PM trail, feel free to put your prejudice aside and let's discuss, hell I'll even forgive you for accusing me of being someone else similarly unhinged, and I promise never to speak about you know what again)

Reality: I typed that, clicked "Post Reply" and then went out to the shops and came back a couple of hours later.
 
PaulMurkin said:
@Moosedrool... here's what "unhinged" looks like... I finally have an example to show you.

He claims I edited my post , and I am backtracking... (there is more to this of course, including a PM trail, feel free to put your prejudice aside and let's discuss, hell I'll even forgive you for accusing me of being someone else similarly unhinged, and I promise never to speak about you know what again)

Reality: I typed that, clicked "Post Reply" and then went out to the shops and came back a couple of hours later.
Click to expand...
For the sake of "reality" the post history paints a different picture. The second half of your post was added three minutes after the first. So I would avoid using terms such as "unhinged".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X