How do SA banks keep getting away with fleecing the consumer

backstreetboy said:
They now charge between R2-R10 for every currency conversion overseas.
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That's still not too bad, but it adds up when doing multiple card swipes etc in a day. But if they are still using midmarket rates, as speedster mentioned, then definitely worth it for doing balance top ups on forex accounts etc. Because FNB buy/sell rates are a proper shafting, especially on larger amounts.
 
Just checked the N26 fees. They charge 3% for credit card topups, that's pretty expensive. Even more so if you're using an FNB card which has about a 2% spread for a total cost of 5%. Ouch.
 
Speedster said:
I don't think they're licensed in Ireland. They have a German banking licence and due to European Central Bank rules, can operate across the Eurozone (which obviously includes Ireland).
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Okay, either way, I was able to open the account with them using an Irish residence, but they definitely don't operate in all eurozone countries.

As per their website:

UPDATE: 6th Mar. 2024 at 12:00

  • Markets open for all tiers: Austria, Belgium, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia & Spain
  • Markets open only for Premium accounts: n/a
  • Markets closed for all tiers: Denmark, Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway, Poland, Sweden & Switzerland
  • Markets closed: Italy
The 3% I can live with, and still beat swift fees+forex charges, but the extra 2% lost on FNBs spread is was a kick in the nuts this morning. Mostly I just have my Euro invoices paid to the n26 account, so then it costs nothing, and it costs me nothing to spend the money in SA using the debit card. But sometimes I have to do a top up, and then the FNB spread does bite. So will look at capitec going forward, especially if they go on midmarket rates.
 
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Zellephant said:
Okay, either way, I was able to open the account with them using an Irish residence, but they definitely don't operate in all eurozone countries.

As per their website:

UPDATE: 6th Mar. 2024 at 12:00

  • Markets open for all tiers: Austria, Belgium, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia & Spain
  • Markets open only for Premium accounts: n/a
  • Markets closed for all tiers: Denmark, Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway, Poland, Sweden & Switzerland
  • Markets closed: Italy
The 3% I can live with, and still beat swift fees+forex charges, but the extra 2% lost on FNBs spread is was a kick in the nuts this morning. Mostly I just have my Euro invoices paid to the n26 account, so then it costs nothing, and it costs me nothing to spend the money in SA using the debit card. But sometimes I have to do a top up, and then the FNB spread does bite. So will look at capitec going forward, especially if they go on midmarket rates.
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Swift with Shyft is about 7c spread plus €12. On your €1000 that is in the region of 1.5%. If you're on here complaining about costs, then surely you see how foolish the credit card top up option is.
 
Zellephant said:
That's still not too bad, but it adds up when doing multiple card swipes etc in a day. But if they are still using midmarket rates, as speedster mentioned, then definitely worth it for doing balance top ups on forex accounts etc. Because FNB buy/sell rates are a proper shafting, especially on larger amounts.
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R10 a few times a day adds up quickly.
 
Zellephant said:
[COLOR=var(--text-light)]Mostly I just have my Euro invoices paid to the n26 account, so then it costs nothing, and it costs me nothing to spend the money in SA using the debit card. [/COLOR]
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So the EUR->ZAR conversion is at the interbank rate?
 
It seems the original point is being seriously missed here guys. It's clear now that Speedster is the resident expert on saving money when sending money overseas, and I will keep his suggestions in mind in the future. but my issue is with how our banks still manage to convince us that instant payments are something we should be paying for, and 24-48 hour delays for local interbank payments is perfectly acceptable, and secondly, how can we as consumers put pressure on them to get with the times, and make all local interbank transfers instant and free
 
Zellephant said:
but our banks can justify charging R40.00 per transaction for that same service, and everyone just accepts it.
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Capitec asks something like R8* for the same as does the FNB Easy PAYG account (so you could easily have such an account in a minute or 2), but I am sure there will be all kinds of excuses.

*a can of coke is not even R8 anymore :(
 
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Zellephant said:
It seems the original point is being seriously missed here guys. It's clear now that Speedster is the resident expert on saving money when sending money overseas, and I will keep his suggestions in mind in the future. but my issue is with how our banks still manage to convince us that instant payments are something we should be paying for, and 24-48 hour delays for local interbank payments is perfectly acceptable, and secondly, how can we as consumers put pressure on them to get with the times, and make all local interbank transfers instant and free
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The best way to put pressure on the banks is to move to the providers who don't charge those fees.
 
Also, should've mentioned this earlier, the recently introduced Payshap is instant (and free on a proper account).
 
Firstly, most interbank transfers are now same-day if you do them early enough in the day. My main bank account is with FNB and I also have Capitec and Discovery accounts. Most of the time when I do a transfer from my FNB account to Capitec or Discovery it clears the same day.

Secondly, Standard Bank's Shyft product is excellent for quick SWIFT transfers. I often get same day transfers when I send money from Shyft to my Channel Islands offshore bank account. Often clears within a few hours of sending.
 
supersunbird said:
Capitec asks something like R8* for the same as does the FNB Easy PAYG account (so you could easily have such an account in a minute or 2), but I am sure there will be all kinds of excuses.

*a can of coke is not even R8 anymore :(
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Whether it's R8.00 or R40.00 or R2.00 is irrelevant. Interbank transfers should all be free, and should all be processed in real time. That's my point.
Speedster said:
The best way to put pressure on the banks is to move to the providers who don't charge those fees.
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Which bank does immediate inter bank transfers and doesn't charge a fee for it? Because again, that was my initial point. Interbank transfers should be processed in real time, and should be free. If EU banks can do that for payments beteen different countries and banks withinf the EU, surely our banks can do it within our common monetary area.
Speedster said:
Also, should've mentioned this earlier, the recently introduced Payshap is instant (and free on a proper account).
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Agreed, payshap works, but how many people have it set up? And what about paying businesses? I might be wrong, but don't think payshap works for business accounts.
deweyzeph said:
Firstly, most interbank transfers are now same-day if you do them early enough in the day. My main bank account is with FNB and I also have Capitec and Discovery accounts. Most of the time when I do a transfer from my FNB account to Capitec or Discovery it clears the same day.

Secondly, Standard Bank's Shyft product is excellent for quick SWIFT transfers. I often get same day transfers when I send money from Shyft to my Channel Islands offshore bank account. Often clears within a few hours of sending.
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Again, my point is interbank transfers should be immediate. Same day is not the same as real time. I am also surprised by all those saying most interbank payments are same day, because I have two businesses, and we make and receive dozens of EFT payments every week, and very few interbank payments clear on the same day. Most clear overnight, but often it takes two days. Payments received from Standard bank accounts into FNB accounts often take three full days to clear, regardless of what time the payment was made.
 
Zellephant said:
Whether it's R8.00 or R40.00 or R2.00 is irrelevant. Interbank transfers should all be free, and should all be processed in real time. That's my point.

Which bank does immediate inter bank transfers and doesn't charge a fee for it? Because again, that was my initial point. Interbank transfers should be processed in real time, and should be free. If EU banks can do that for payments beteen different countries and banks withinf the EU, surely our banks can do it within our common monetary area.

Agreed, payshap works, but how many people have it set up? And what about paying businesses? I might be wrong, but don't think payshap works for business accounts.

Again, my point is interbank transfers should be immediate. Same day is not the same as real time. I am also surprised by all those saying most interbank payments are same day, because I have two businesses, and we make and receive dozens of EFT payments every week, and very few interbank payments clear on the same day. Most clear overnight, but often it takes two days. Payments received from Standard bank accounts into FNB accounts often take three full days to clear, regardless of what time the payment was made.
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Payshap works to any SA bank account. You don't need to set anything up first.

My FNB account doesn't charge for instant payments.
 
Speedster said:
Payshap works to any SA bank account. You don't need to set anything up first.

My FNB account doesn't charge for instant payments.
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You definitely need to set up payshap. You have to link a bank account to a cellphone number to be used with payshap, and can only have one account linked to a payshap account. So like I said, how on earth does one do business transactions with payshap. My personal account is linked to payshap, not my my business account. How do I invoice a client and have them pay my company using payshap? How do I pay my suppliers invovices using payshap? It's not possible. So we have to use EFT and wait for funds to clear, or get paid by credit card, and pay 2.5% on every transaction, and still wait 24/48 hours or three days if over a weekend to actually get the money from the merchant account…..

All this would be avoided if interaccount payments would become instant and free, as they should be, for everyone.

Payshap is great, but it's not a suitable solutions in all scenarios.

The fact you are in a position to have a private wealth bundle at FNB, and that gives you access to free instant transfers is actually absurd. It's the opposite side of the spectrum that needs that luxury. Imagine the difference if would make to a small mom and pop shop restaurant or a street vendor, if they could get paid, and pay their suppliers in real time on a daily basis?

Everyone has ikhoka or snapscan or whatever these days to get paid, but it costs them around 3% of every transaction. But it costs 3% per transaction and takes a day or two for them to get paid. payshap can solve one side of the issue, and their clients can pay them via payshap, but they can't pay the gas supplier or the bidvest food order or the wood supplier with payshap, that's going to have to be an EFT, and they will only deliver their stock once the money has cleared…so it's either wait 2 days, or pay for intant clearance.
 
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Zellephant said:
You definitely need to set up payshap. You have to link a bank account to a cellphone number to be used with payshap, and can only have one account linked to a payshap account. So like I said, how on earth does one do business transactions with payshap. My personal account is linked to payshap, not my my business account. How do I invoice a client and have them pay my company using payshap? How do I pay my suppliers invovices using payshap? It's not possible. So we have to use EFT and wait for funds to clear, or get paid by credit card, and pay 2.5% on every transaction, and still wait 24/48 hours or three days if over a weekend to actually get the money from the merchant account…..

All this would be avoided if interaccount payments would become instant and free, as they should be, for everyone.

Payshap is great, but it's not a suitable solutions in all scenarios.

The fact you are in a position to have a private wealth bundle at FNB, and that gives you access to free instant transfers is actually absurd. It's the opposite side of the spectrum that needs that luxury. Imagine the difference if would make to a small mom and pop shop restaurant or a street vendor, if they could get paid, and pay their suppliers in real time on a daily basis?

Everyone has ikhoka or snapscan or whatever these days to get paid, but it costs them around 3% of every transaction. But it costs 3% per transaction and takes a day or two for them to get paid. payshap can solve one side of the issue, and their clients can pay them via payshap, but they can't pay the gas supplier or the bidvest food order or the wood supplier with payshap, that's going to have to be an EFT, and they will only deliver their stock once the money has cleared…so it's either wait 2 days, or pay for intant clearance.
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You can Payshap to an account number too. No setup required for that. It's very possible to pay a business account.
 
Carl_Johnson said:
So the student is spending the NSFAS money in Europe?
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Probably distance learning from an SA university like Unisa, where you write your exams on a laptop overseas etc. Actual universities outside SA aren't listed as part of the 26 universities and 50 TVET colleges that are funded.
 
NR7 said:
Probably distance learning from an SA university like Unisa, where you write your exams on a laptop overseas etc. Actual universities outside SA aren't listed as part of the 26 universities and 50 TVET colleges that are funded.
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Makes sense.
 
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