How I hate crap developers

I remember about 6 people who thought that of themselves

6 out of 60 odd is not all that much.


Why should they stick around if they are not being paid? Poor management of staff resources should never be a devs problem. Also you do not always understand their circumstances as to why they are clock watchers.

They call 'em bonuses, so they do get paid (rather well).

OK listen, I'm not saying you have to be married to your job only that you should be willing to do a bit extra when it is needed. I can completely appreciate some people going home early because of family etc. But like I said, that guy that just "disappears" when you need him...
 
6 out of 60 odd is not all that much.




They call 'em bonuses, so they do get paid (rather well).

OK listen, I'm not saying you have to be married to your job only that you should be willing to do a bit extra when it is needed. I can completely appreciate some people going home early because of family etc. But like I said, that guy that just "disappears" when you need him...

Heres a bit of information, they pay very far under market related salaries there ;)
 
hearing notebooks close at 1 second past 5pm is extremely annoying, especially when some of them arrive 5 minutes after lunch is over
 
hearing notebooks close at 1 second past 5pm is extremely annoying, especially when some of them arrive 5 minutes after lunch is over

Yes i agree if you get in late you work the time that you didnt do. But i used to get in at around 7 and sorry working until stupid hours like 22:00+ for weeks/months is just a visible sign of a few things. Bad management, Bad planning, Bad design.
 
Watch that blood pressure man. Not worth it.

I think the calm comes with age. I have been coding 25 years now. I don't see point in ranting when someone does something in a way I don't think is the right way (I used to though). I just fix it, test, and move on. More often than not the devs will ask why I changed it and I will explain. Everyone learns something and none of us have high blood pressure.
And even after 25 years I learn new stuff all the time from my colleagues. No-one can ever know it all and you should rather help build the skills instead of flipping your lid. You may just live longer ;)

Hindsight is also an ugly thing, if you don't know the circumstances under which the coding took place its not fair to judge someone.

It might have been an honest mistake at 3 in the morning on a Sunday fixing some other devs issues before a Monday deadline.

There are some pretty bad developers out there though.
 
Yes i agree if you get in late you work the time that you didnt do. But i used to get in at around 7 and sorry working until stupid hours like 22:00+ for weeks/months is just a visible sign of a few things. Bad management, Bad planning, Bad design.

Thats why I believe in working in your hours - you do your 40hrs for the week no matter what. In my previous job I was putting in 70hrs a week and one month, 110 hours a week. This was all down to poor mangement that caught up and I had to meet the deadlines. Killed me and I made sure I went back to a 40hr dev job.
 
To me the clock watchers are the most "dangerous". I'd much rather work with an average developer that takes pride in his work than with a genius that drops everything when the clock strikes 17:00. You'd get way more done with that eager less knowledgable dev.

Anything else you need Hitler?

I bet you expect your devs to work endless hours overtime with no remuneration too hey. Typical attitude - it's ok because developers aren't real people with families or hobbies or possibly anything else to do but slave code for 23 hours a day.

You sound like a great guy :sick:

And for your other posts outlining that you don't mind if they have responsibility but they should work if the deadlines need to be met:

* Why are the deadlines not being met? Where I work now we have not hit even one case like this. The projects are always well mapped out and the time is always well structured. Everything is taken into account and we always hit our deadlines comfortably.

* Like another poster said -why should they work longer? Do you pay overtime? If it has become an issue then clearly projects are constantly given too short a time frame - maybe this needs to be discussed with you, the other devs and managers.

* I have pulled one all nighter before and thought to myseld WTF! Why should I work long hours for someone else's ****ups. When I go to job interviews or my boss asks me to work overtime I tell them I won't unless it was my fault that the project is late. Once you cave people always try take advantage time and time again. We are already stuck in a rat race where we spend most of our time and youth stuck behind a desk - why should you waste your entire life doing it. I'm paid to be at work from 8am - 5pm. If you want me here longer you will be paying at least triple my hourly rate.
 
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He's one of the drones, they expect it of him and as such everyone else is expected. And due to the client being who they are and the team wanting to be 'awesome' they'll will sacrifice their developers to achieve this. They give bonuses but they are not worth it when you work out how much you would be paid if you got paid overtime.
 
I remember that, being forced to do other peoples work and where were they... no where to be scene they had left at 16:00.. but then i stopped giving a **** and resigned, best decision i ever made.:D

I must confess I can't see how it's possible to pick up work someone has being doing at 16:05 and do anything constructive to it in the next 40 minutes or so, unless its to do something simple as kicking off something already set up.

Sounds like a totally f'd up environment with zero controls, and a train smash . :) leaving was a good choice
 
Gotta be honest I'm a dev that is a bit of a clock-watcher BUT a learning dev at that. I used to work 7am-4pm and 8pm-4am. Bad planning and strict deadlines were what was going on at the previous company but when I moved the team-lead put a stop to that nonsense. It leave's you burned out and really cranky which ruin's your personal life. i was studying at the time and I was a total douche.

While I might leave early and troll myBB for most of the day..I do, do my work and when I get home I study up for school and skill up on what I have realized I don't know and what I am dying to know. Also get to spend time with family, have a hobby and sleep.
 
Oh this is gonna be fun...

Anything else you need Hitler?

I bet you expect your devs to work endless hours overtime with no remuneration too hey. Typical attitude - it's ok because developers aren't real people with families or hobbies or possibly anything else to do but slave code for 23 hours a day.

You sound like a great guy :sick:

First off, I'm not the boss. I am what semaphore calls a "drone" albeit one of the drones that can ask a smaller drone to do some ****. Those overtime hours gets rewarded in bonuses and it's not like you work overtime ALL the time.

And for your other posts outlining that you don't mind if they have responsibility but they should work if the deadlines need to be met:

* Why are the deadlines not being met? Where I work now we have not hit even one case like this. The projects are always well mapped out and the time is always well structured. Everything is taken into account and we always hit our deadlines comfortably.

Now, regardless of how semaphore feels about this company/team he will agree with me that this client is not an easy client to work for. The client's priorities change overnight, deadlines shift all the time. In a perfect world you'd be able to draw up a roadmap pinpointing what exactly goes live and when....but not here. It's not possible.

The rate of expansion of the system and size of the team has lead to some undesirable limitations in the system that are being fixed. It's just difficult to write a framework or libraries for some two bit devs that don't have time to learn or ask how they work. Maybe because they are at home while the rest of us are fixing and baby-proofing the code all the time. You have no idea how frustrating it is to babysit developers that REALLY don't care and bitch and moan all the time.

* Like another poster said -why should they work longer? Do you pay overtime? If it has become an issue then clearly projects are constantly given too short a time frame - maybe this needs to be discussed with you, the other devs and managers.

Normally the guys fcking off early when the time really gets tough are the guys who coded some real terrible stuff. I'm not saying that it is you (I don't know you) but take this comment any way you want.

* I have pulled one all nighter before and thought to myseld WTF! Why should I work long hours for someone else's ****ups. When I go to job interviews or my boss asks me to work overtime I tell them I won't unless it was my fault that the project is late. Once you cave people always try take advantage time and time again. We are already stuck in a rat race where we spend most of our time and youth stuck behind a desk - why should you waste your entire life doing it. I'm paid to be at work from 8am - 5pm. If you want me here longer you will be paying at least triple my hourly rate.

Some people are born with more drive than others, a bigger desire to reach the top in their careers. To you it probably doesn't matter as much as it does to me since our priorities are very different. Although there are lots of fathers putting in extra hours in our team.

Doesn't change the fact that I would rather work with someone that is not gonna drop me when the clock strikes "home time". You call me a "nazi" because of it, but on the flip side I should call you a "loafer". I don't though, I'm just honest in saying that I'd rather never work with you or someone like you on anything important.


Maybe a good idea that the next time either of us go for an interview we mention that we frequent MyBB so that if, by chance, it is one of us sitting across the desk that we don't waste each other's time.
 
My pet "hate", ignoring exceptions.

Pl/SQL version:

Begin
... code
Exception
When others then
Null;
End;


Always an excuse to do this

Ja, if you're going to have a null in your exception clause at least let it be specific; if, for example, you expect no data on some of your queries then only code for NO_DATA_FOUND and if OTHERS then provide some sort of error reporting!
 
@Hamster - I agree with mostly all your points, but there comes a time when the team should say no and actually give them a rest. You on the other hand thankfully didn't have my team lead, if you did you would have also had enough;)
 
I would say I'm a pretty crap developer, and I've been doing it for ages.

I don't "love" it though, never did. Unfortunately what I love doing pays almost nothing.
 
I have a fairly strict 8 hour plus lunch day. My company obviously respects our time. On the other hand I've worked a few all nighters at my previous job when a big project goes live or something no questions asked because that is just the nature of things.
I'll usually finish what I'm busy with before leaving. On the other hand if I'm really stuck and my brain is just fried I don't feel any guilt leaving a but early and coming back to it tomorrow.
I'm glad I've never had to work 80hr weeks for months at a time.
 
Some people are born with more drive than others, a bigger desire to reach the top in their careers. To you it probably doesn't matter as much as it does to me since our priorities are very different. Although there are lots of fathers putting in extra hours in our team..

You work for a company and describe yourself as someone with more drive?

Try starting your own company and making a success of it ...
 
Interesting to see how closely time & skill are perceived to be linked in this thread. OP didn't even *mention* time.

In my (non-coding) job I can say that time & skill are entirely uncorrelated. I know skilled people who head for the door out with second accuracy & also ones that stay an extra 2 hrs every day...voluntarily.
 
You work for a company and describe yourself as someone with more drive?

Try starting your own company and making a success of it ...

Now that is asking for sleepless nights. Maybe when I am older and wiser.
 
maybe the dev needs to gain more experience , maybe he is not a crap dev?

I'm just thinking, is everyone here absolutely 100% sure that every single function you've EVER written, is in a try catch?
 
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