How secular family values stack up

w1z4rd

w1z4rd

Karmic Sangoma
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More children are “growing up godless” than at any other time in our nation's history. They are the offspring of an expanding secular population that includes a relatively new and burgeoning category of Americans called the “Nones,” so nicknamed because they identified themselves as believing in “nothing in particular” in a 2012 study by the Pew Research Center.

The number of American children raised without religion has grown significantly since the 1950s, when fewer than 4% of Americans reported growing up in a nonreligious household, according to several recent national studies. That figure entered the double digits when a 2012 study showed that 11% of people born after 1970 said they had been raised in secular homes. This may help explain why 23% of adults in the U.S. claim to have no religion, and more than 30% of Americans between the ages of 18 and 29 say the same.

So how does the raising of upstanding, moral children work without prayers at mealtimes and morality lessons at Sunday school? Quite well, it seems.

Far from being dysfunctional, nihilistic and rudderless without the security and rectitude of religion, secular households provide a sound and solid foundation for children, according to Vern Bengston, a USC professor of gerontology and sociology.


For nearly 40 years, Bengston has overseen the Longitudinal Study of Generations, which has become the largest study of religion and family life conducted across several generational cohorts in the United States. When Bengston noticed the growth of nonreligious Americans becoming increasingly pronounced, he decided in 2013 to add secular families to his study in an attempt to understand how family life and intergenerational influences play out among the religionless.

He was surprised by what he found: High levels of family solidarity and emotional closeness between parents and nonreligious youth, and strong ethical standards and moral values that had been clearly articulated as they were imparted to the next generation.

“Many nonreligious parents were more coherent and passionate about their ethical principles than some of the ‘religious' parents in our study,” Bengston told me. “The vast majority appeared to live goal-filled lives characterized by moral direction and sense of life having a purpose.”
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Read the rest: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html

Great to see secularism growing, means this world has a chance at a future.
 
I don't think it really matters what your secular or spiritual alignment is.
A-holes are going to raise A-holes and nice people are going to raise nice people.
 
Garyvdh said:
I don't think it really matters what your secular or spiritual alignment is.
A-holes are going to raise A-holes and nice people are going to raise nice people.
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I guess "The vast majority" of atheists are nice people then.
 
Garyvdh said:
Then why is the world in such a mess?
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A large part is because of a lack of separation of church and state.

But also what you said. A-holes are going to A-hole* and reproduce, mostly creating more A-holes.

*Ironically, not using the A-hole.
 
Randhir said:
A large part is because of a lack of separation of church and state.

But also what you said. A-holes are going to A-hole* and reproduce, mostly creating more A-holes.

*Ironically, not using the A-hole.
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I'm not so sure. Some of them look like it or smell like it, or behave like it.

This I think is the problem. No matter where you come from in life, or what your spiritual alignment, your behaviour is largely due to parenting.
There are a lot of a-holes in the world. It's just an unfortunate fact that a lot of them are religious.
And yes, I know the religion may aggravate their a-holeness... but so can other non-religious factors.
 
Everyone is an *******

[video=youtube;tVJC0LJTYZc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVJC0LJTYZc[/video]
 
And that truth, as I've said time and time again, is that people are people. No matter what segment of society you look at, you'll find good people and you'll find bad people. You'll even find, as has been said, that the line between good and evil cuts through every human heart. Certainly there are people in the news who kill in the name of religion, but just because they kill in the name of religion doesn't really mean they kill because of religion. The Islamic militants who cut off Nick Berg's head are not nice men who would have otherwise been his best friend, if it weren't for their religious convictions forcing them into this grievous act. They are base murderers, and they should be punished accordingly, I don't care whether they go to church or not. Killers don't really kill because of their religion. Neither does a lack of religious convictions cause one to run wild in the streets with a bloody axe and a torch. Religion is a convenient banner for many to carry, but there are plenty of other banners available as well, and if it wasn't religion, they'd do their deeds under some other justification, if they care to even have one. The real reason they do their evil deeds is that they're human. Humans are very smart, very capable; and when we want something, we generally find some way to get it, even if that means killing someone or committing genocide.
 
bchip said:
And that truth, as I've said time and time again, is that people are people. No matter what segment of society you look at, you'll find good people and you'll find bad people. You'll even find, as has been said, that the line between good and evil cuts through every human heart. Certainly there are people in the news who kill in the name of religion, but just because they kill in the name of religion doesn't really mean they kill because of religion. The Islamic militants who cut off Nick Berg's head are not nice men who would have otherwise been his best friend, if it weren't for their religious convictions forcing them into this grievous act. They are base murderers, and they should be punished accordingly, I don't care whether they go to church or not. Killers don't really kill because of their religion. Neither does a lack of religious convictions cause one to run wild in the streets with a bloody axe and a torch. Religion is a convenient banner for many to carry, but there are plenty of other banners available as well, and if it wasn't religion, they'd do their deeds under some other justification, if they care to even have one. The real reason they do their evil deeds is that they're human. Humans are very smart, very capable; and when we want something, we generally find some way to get it, even if that means killing someone or committing genocide.
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They did studies on suicide bombers and such, and found out they were actually good moral people who thought they were doing the right thing. They could just have easily being your friend in a different environment.

Religion can make nice people commit acts of violence... joyfully. Those that can be lead to believe absurdities can be lead to commit atrocities.
 
I don't see why, i mean i can understand that many atheist parents may be more skeptical and have more knowledge of the world than many other people, but if you're an *******, you're an *******, no matter our justification for it. a christian killing someone and praying to god for forgiveness and an atheist killing someone because they can are no different, they're beliefs and justification differ but they still get their end result

atheists may also be open minded in regards to belief, but they may be close minded on a lot of other issues. there is no doubt that creating a free, fair and tolerant environment produces better people, but it doesn't mean atheists can't be bad people

edit: or being free of religion makes you free from any bad thoughts
 
ghoti said:
They did studies on suicide bombers and such, and found out they were actually good moral people who thought they were doing the right thing. They could just have easily being your friend in a different environment.

Religion can make nice people commit acts of violence... joyfully. Those that can be lead to believe absurdities can be lead to commit atrocities.
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You have a very valid point, nothing is stronger than our beliefs.

If we were truly made to believe that to jump off a cliff would save humanity, most of us would do it.

So I guess you get 2 kinds of people those who believe what they are doing is right (brainwashed)
and those who are simply out to hurt, which are often your controlling dominating people.
 
bchip said:
You have a very valid point, nothing is stronger than our beliefs.

If we were truly made to believe that to jump off a cliff would save humanity, most of us would do it.

So I guess you get 2 kinds of people those who believe what they are doing is right (brainwashed)
and those who are simply out to hurt, which are often your controlling dominating people.
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Yup, but someone who is about dominating other people, is unlikely going to sacrifice himself for his beliefs. As he or she has selfish reasons for being involved. For someone to kill themselves they really have to believe they are doing the right thing for them to reach that place where they will die for their beliefs.
 
STS said:
I don't see why, i mean i can understand that many atheist parents may be more skeptical and have more knowledge of the world than many other people, but if you're an *******, you're an *******, no matter our justification for it. a christian killing someone and praying to god for forgiveness and an atheist killing someone because they can are no different, they're beliefs and justification differ but they still get their end result

atheists may also be open minded in regards to belief, but they may be close minded on a lot of other issues. there is no doubt that creating a free, fair and tolerant environment produces better people, but it doesn't mean atheists can't be bad people

edit: or being free of religion makes you free from any bad thoughts
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Because specific beliefs have specific consequences.

Saying a55holes are a55holes and that's the end of it is a cop out.
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Because specific beliefs have specific consequences.

Saying a55holes are a55holes and that's the end of it is a cop out.
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there are different motivations for killing, if you the jealous type and quick to anger, no jesus, police, the 15 laws forbidding you from harming people or someone's blackbelt in karate is going to stop you from pulling a gun and shooting someone that slept with your wife

i'm not saying being a critical thinker doesn't have its merits, it also means sometimes people have more patience when examining a situation, but crime and murder don't solely exist because of beliefs or lack there of
 
STS said:
there are different motivations for killing, if you the jealous type and quick to anger, no jesus, police, the 15 laws forbidding you from harming people or someone's blackbelt in karate is going to stop you from pulling a gun and shooting someone that slept with your wife

i'm not saying being a critical thinker doesn't have its merits, it also means sometimes people have more patience when examining a situation, but crime and murder don't solely exist because of beliefs or lack there of
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I didn't say they do, and there are obviously many factors involved in how a person gets to a point of committing bad things. But religion is inherently divisive and antagonistic. Religious people who are a55holes also aren't necessarily a55holes because of their religious beliefs, but quite often they are, and their evil deeds are directly a result of their religious beliefs.
 
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