Hunter - How will you spec in patch3.02

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Kleine Fische

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Hi Guys and Gals,

Ive been reading a bit on the EJ forums trying to sift the noob alert talent points out of my build.

I have been the cookie cutter BM raiding build for over a year now along with 2 recently recruited hunters. They all seem to be staying BM (Safe Choice) however I can see the value of the MM tree now and the TSA raid wide buff on ranged and mele being useful.

Im only interested in your Level 70Cap talent choices/builds. Do not post about future gear and about pet benefits or mechanics that are not yet in the game currently.

Reason for this is that we are still raiding actively and Im looking for the best Raid PVE build for the little time we have left of TBC.

These are links to the two builds I am considering. (Both are MM builds BTW)

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=chZMeVbMNzMxog0AoxM

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=chZMeAb0IzMxog0AZxM

Key differences are choices in IHM over Rapid fire. I did read that surefooted now increases Crit rating which motivated me to take points in it this time round.

I heard that Piercing shots was lack lusture and even tho we doing attempts on Brutalus I have not taken them. (Yes I am aware of the HP nerf on Bosses)

So any comments from hunters in similar position with more knowledge on this topic would be most welcome.

We raid tonight at 7PM so no dilly dally.. I need a spec confirmed by 5!! :D

Regards

Nem

EDIT
Professions

* New Profession: Inscription is available to train up to 375.
* Enchantment
o The Surefooted enchantment now provides additional critical strike rating instead of root and snare resistance.
http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=818
 
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Ok I cant comment on the MM tree, since I am staying BM.

I have been doing so much tests and reading up, my brain wants to explode.

See some problems in your build allready you might wanna relook @ if you wanna tune it for max DPS. Things to consider : **some points are more relevant to BM hunters though**

- Autoshot clipping removed from timers
- HR from hunter scales over to pet making AH talents useless on melee dps pets. Only if you use a caster pet is AH required. 164 HR needed for caster pets to hit HR cap.
- Choice of pet, Scorpid is now the bad boy on the block... AP from hunter scales over to scorpid poison ticks making it the most powerfull dps pets ingame outdps'ing rake ability from cats. Figures of over 1k dps were reported under peak conditions.
- Mortal shot nerf meaning talent respending required for optimum dps… since mortal shots do NOT apply to autoshots anymore, only special attack shots ( you might wanna reconsider spending those points there in your build )
- Glyph spending – keep in mind steady shot glyph is not available yet since it requires northrend mats…
- Pet talent calculations + Exotic pets are a WASTE now in current form.
- Macro's will be obsolete, so forget all your BM macro's
- KC command redo… gonna be a massive new DPS boosting ability of your pet if used properly in conjunction with its hidden 1 min timer.
- How do you wanna do dps ? massive instant burst dps or massive DPS over raid time ? All depends how you spec your character.
- Steady nerf from 1.5 CS to 2.0 CS and the fact that steady now uses arrows thus benefiting from arrow damage dps to be added to the raw unaccounted damage stat... so steady shot if used correctly will do more damage now.
- FI no longer stacks with other hunters FI… making it a waste of talent points if more than one hunter has FI in the raid.
- Haste should now be safe to stack to around 1.5 CT on special shots before we feel it loses its value due to GCD.
- Mana will not be a problem... forget about mana efficiency. One SP in the raid is enough to feed the whole raid. VE is now raid wide.

Trust me... this is the tip of the iceberg. Playing a hunter now... and speccing it now, will be like playing a entire new class.

I quote blizzard's post :

"We have spent a *ton* of time on hunters. There is no question hunters had the most developer time."

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/3/10972138500-feedback-hunter-concerns-civil-edition.html
 
Damage to me

I respected to close what I had before (BM hunter) and noticed my DPS is done and damage I am taking is up (just did some dailies). From what Pornolio post I will have to see if I saved my Scorpid from before or have to go tame one again.

Huard
 
jong.... my build ... hehehe... damn, I would like to reserve judgement on it, till I can just see how much dps I can squeeze out of it. With our latency etc, I prefer doing real raid tests, and I will most likely be tampering a lot with in the next few days. There is a lot of noise on the theorycrafting forums about builds floating around, but I tend to not take too many of them serious. Certain dudes really know their stuff, and at the same time, certain ppl are just throwing random builds around. There is a few guys which I know are pretty clued up, and I tend to do my own tests on their theory's and so far they haven't been wrong. Pet wise... yes, scorpid for me + cat. They have stated they will nerf cats + scorpids, but for the time being I am using them till they nerf it. Exotic pets WILL do 10% more damage in the coming patches its been acknowledged. But as it is now... its a waste of a talent point.

I have been playing with it for days now. Spend one talent point... go read up 20 threads about it...

I am gonna be staying BM, but in order for us to get the maximum benefit from BM cookie cutter builds, we need to be level 80 with enough talent points GRRRR.. its all a evil plan from blizz I tell you.
 
Pornolio,

I had to laugh at your opening statement.

"
I have been doing so much tests and reading up, my brain wants to explode."

He heee, I kinda feel the same.

Ok your comments are valid, and even after I read about raid wide buffs I still go dump points in efficiency ^^

I`ve been so conditioned!!! Gonna take a while to break free from the chains me thinks. I do agree with you playing a hunter now is going to be playing a new class IMO.

As for my DPS goal, it is to be solid sustained DPS over the Boss Fight. I got 2 Other BM hunters that are gonna burn the trash for me :) so Boss fights are my priority which is inline with our guilds objectives to continue progress.

As for shot rotations and Macro`s well yeah manto`s 3:2 is out the window along with any of the past "Spam" Macro`s.

for bm: steady.
for mm: serpent-steady-steady-steady-steady-chimera
for sv: serpent(hope for LnL procs)-explosive shot-steady-steady-steady-explosive shot

With the change to the SS timer would equipping BBoTB or BBS be a better choice over the badge Xbow?

Im gonna replay with the build now that my memory has been jogged out of hibernation. Post again once its reworked.

Little Fish
 
I'm really glad to hear I can drop AH from my Talent build. I wasn't sure if a pet would get enough from the Hunters gear.
I'm still getting my Corehound tonight. My Hunter's only a grinding char so I'll go BM and just play with something that I like the look of (i.e. Corehound)

I'm a tad sad that Scorpids are now the highest DPS pets though.
 
Ok, So I have re-looked at the talents;

Pretty tough TBH, so I have based the 2 choices on raid enviroment vs. Boss to achieve highest sustained dps with the following rotation

for mm: serpent-steady-steady-steady-steady-chimera (And I may weave arcane dependant on mana and DPS cost vs. Benefit)

So 1st off it seems Mortal shots although only working based on any bonus damage rather then base damage I feel is still better then points in Barrage. You will be doing far more steadies then Multi or Volley in a boss fight like Kalecgos or Brutalus. Which leads me to believe for lvl 70 raiding Barrage is not where I want to spend points.

I dropped priority on Efficiency and used it mainly as a filler, due to some of our class changes mana regen and mana costs as well as raid wide buff from JoW and SPriest.

Also left out IHM as it doesnt affect mele damage and (I heard it doesn't apply to Auto shot any longer).

So after its all said and done, for me ATM on a MM build it seems to be do I want to get to Aimed shot for the 50% debuff on the target to heal himself ultimately requiring 6 points oO

OR

Do I want to ignore the Aimed shot and put a few points in Imp Arcane shot to get to Piercing Shots. Which on the lvl70 Formulae vs. the lvl 80 Formulae still seem to me to be viable.

Once again, please add your comments. Here is the build;

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=chZceMrMGzMgog0Aox00b

Regards
 
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heya guys... just got home and had a quick look at the replies.

Will reply to your post in the morning Kleine Fische as I need to look through each and every talent point etc. I have been more focussed on the BM build so the MM tree is a bit of a dark horse for me. You also kinda need to know what other spec's your other hunters are going for... eg. if you have 2 x BM hunters and both take FI, its a waste, since it doesnt stack anymore.

@ TheShogun - and dammit here I thought we converted you to a thorough bred hunter... hehehe... just a farming character ?? Naah man, you will fall in love so much with that little pewpew monster it will be your main !
Yea I must say, if you are just grinding, nothing would look cooler than this massive devilsaur / corehound helping you farm mobs.

If I wasnt so focussed on raid performance tuning, I would have gone with exotic pets as well... but for me raiding wise, I have to try and squeeze out every drop of dps, and every talent point is sooo valuable. I really wanna see KJ down this week and hopefully soon see a orange bow soon. :D
 
I would like some advice on a BM build I can't play around so much only lvl 40 at the mo so any advice would be nice.
 
Pornolio said:
heya guys... just got home and had a quick look at the replies.

Will reply to your post in the morning Kleine Fische as I need to look through each and every talent point etc. I have been more focussed on the BM build so the MM tree is a bit of a dark horse for me. You also kinda need to know what other spec's your other hunters are going for... eg. if you have 2 x BM hunters and both take FI, its a waste, since it doesnt stack anymore.

@ TheShogun - and dammit here I thought we converted you to a thorough bred hunter... hehehe... just a farming character ?? Naah man, you will fall in love so much with that little pewpew monster it will be your main !
Yea I must say, if you are just grinding, nothing would look cooler than this massive devilsaur / corehound helping you farm mobs.

If I wasnt so focussed on raid performance tuning, I would have gone with exotic pets as well... but for me raiding wise, I have to try and squeeze out every drop of dps, and every talent point is sooo valuable. I really wanna see KJ down this week and hopefully soon see a orange bow soon. :D
Click to expand...

Hehe, moving my Hunter to my main would make an officer or 2 uber pissed off but I do admit I really enjoying playing him.
 
Pornolio said:
I really wanna see KJ down this week and hopefully soon see a orange bow soon. :D
Click to expand...

Good luck with that Pornolio ;) Be the first saffer with a dead KJ under his belt, better yet: Be the first SA hunter with orange :D!
 
off topic: Man I'm soooo deep into my subtlety tree with my ninja, not even my group will be able to spot me :D
 
Hey Guys,

I had soo much fun last night, its like playing a new class.

Anyways back on Topic.

Speccing from BM to MM took some getting used to I have to asay, but I did enjoy some of the Shiny numbers I got. Managed a 4.2K crit Off Chimera dueling a Warrior last night. He was a little surprised XD

So in short, I am very happy.

@ Pornolio, looking forward to your observations from last night and comments regarding the build. And would you please link your BM build too. I may have to go blast a Target Dummy for an hour :)

Many thanks

Little Fish (Nem)
Hunter on AP (EU)
 
Ok wall of text incoming, if you are not interested in hunter dps mechanics / build theory etc... move right along ... not for you then. The following points are nothing more than my personal opinion and results I gathered from my own testing and under no circumstances am I degrading other builds. Use it, dont use, it like they say. Its completely up to you. ;)

I decided to post most of the answers in this forum thread since I have quite a number of PM's + mails of people asking me the same questions, so it makes sense posting it here, so if you dont get a PM back from me, its most likely answered in here. Makes a lot more sense putting everything here rather than me replying same info to lots of ppl :)

Ok, my build... pls keep in mind, its very very experimental at this point in time, and its very hard to determine just how effective it will be in real raiding situations. Most of the feedback I got was very very very good.
I will try and explain why I took certain points over other points, but one thing is for certain... the BM tree is now very very finicky to get it working the way we want it to. Also most of the talents were spent in accordance with my gear levels etc... eg. HR issues / pet abilities etc.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hun...000000000000000000005302100200000000000000000

New good talents like aspect mastery is a no brainer... very very good talent.
The one that really bugged me was Spirit Bond. I really did not want it, but I was forced to pick them to allow me to go down the BM tree further. I had to spend the points there. Might not be a bad thing since all healing on your pet will be 10% better. But yes, sadly this wont do anything for dps output.

Animal handler is NO longer needed if you :
1 - have high HR like 135+
2 - use physical dps pets. If you use caster pets, or have lack of HR, this would be still one of the best talents to pick. In my case I am 142 on cap limit and will be using physical dps pet. My pet will be sorted on HR.

FI is a tough one... since it doesn't stack anymore, it is actually a waste if you take it, and one of the other BM hunters also take it. Might be good option to spend those points elsewhere if one of your other hunters already have it.

Invigoration is no go... mana wont be a issue in a raid scenario... waste of talent points.

Longevity - ohh yea, now this is hot stuff. This little talent means MASSIVE dps gains over a RAID NIGHT. The amount of times you will be able to use your BW more, is insanely valuable. Even on long boss fights, this could mean 2 exstra BW's.

The next couple of talent points were very very tricky to work out since you need certain amounts of points for the MM tree.

Cobra strikes I went with only 1 point since my crit rating is pretty high, and I fire at an incredible shooting speed... meaning I crit a lot, so that 20% is a pretty decent figure for proc rate.

Kindred spirits - 3 / 5 was a decent amount of points, however I will be adding more points there when I level up to 80. As it is now, and we are very limited on points, 3/5 would be suffice. 12 % passive damage boost is nothing to sneeze at for your pet.

Beast mastery - waste of time, no special pet is that good at this point in time that it will outdps something like a cat / scorpid. However, once the new patch comes... blizzard stated exotic pets will do 10% more damage than your vanilla normal pets. So later on yes, definitely get it... as it is now, I wouldn't recommend it.

Ok MM tree - and this was tricky and painfull.
I did not go with focussed aim... purely for 2 reasons.
1 - there is not that many bosses in current WoW that interrupts our casting that much... main ones I can think of, is RoS phase 2, firebloom from KJ. We never needed it, so I dont see it as a critical talent in current form.
2 - My HR is capped... if you are starved on HR, then get this baby... insanely valuable if you lack HR gear / stats.

Lethal shots.. same... awsome talent. Keep it 5/5.
Carefull aim - good one, this is a nice fat AP gain. Definately worth it imo.
Mortal shots - tricky one. In the old wow it was insanely powerfull, now its been nerfed. It no longer applies to autoshots, so you loose out of a lot of its worth, so I only went with 2 points there.
Go for the throat - In current form my pet is ok on focus, and I was really running out of talent points, by only taking 1 point here, I am running borderline on pet focus, but its NOT running completely dry. If you did'nt have 2/2 Beastial Discipline I would not recommend only spending one point in Go for the throat. However if your crit is decent, and you have 2/2 in BD, then you should be ok on pet focus.
No aimed shot... its not a viable raid dps shot. I love to have it for pvp... but sadly every point counts now.
Last one is rapid killing - There is NO way I was not gonna keep this baby.
Our two main dps boosting abilities for a BM hunter is BW + rapid fire.
Spending those 2 points there are MASSIVE dps gains over a raid night period.

Ok... thats my personal build, I have pet talent builds as well, but thats a story of its own.

Other questions I have been asked :

Badge bow + haste. Good question and really hard to answer. But what I would say, if you dont have access to archi / illidan / eredar bow, then the badgebow is king. The haste thing should not bug us too much unless we take our shot speed to below 1.5. In the past the badge bow would really suck if you started to apply haste. This has changed now. If I had the bow, I would do some tests, but I dont have it anymore.

Pet talents - entire different topic on its own...

Oh well... if I do find new things out that really knocks my socks off, I will post it here. But yes, there is so much info flying around, I try and only post / focus on tried and tested talents at this point in time.

Pornolios wall of text crits his fellow hunters for 100000 ZzZzZ

cheers !


EDIT *** Fishy dude... I am still checking out your build + reading up... some of your talent points are very gear dependant eg. the HR points you spent in focussed aim. Remember make sure you dont exceed 9% HR. 3 % HR is massive in terms of HR points. And I dont think your HR is that low, you are most likely overtaking your HR cap. But will add comments here through the day as I get time and check out your gear + talents.


@ Optioncard - Thanks mon ! :) Yea we almost had him pre-nerf. 10 % and he was dead. The last 25 % is chaotic. Encounter demands so much focus, but at the same time even though its not as hard as muru, it doesnt tolerate any mistakes when KJ casts his AOE that blows up everyone that is not shielded by the dragon's shield.
 
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/Cheer

EDIT***

Hmmmm, I didnt check my Hit rating TBH ^^ got a little side tracked with all the other stuff. Traditionally I am exactly on the 142 Hit cap. If I have a Shammy in my Party I would swap Trinket and get 122 Hit +1% from Shammy.

I will play with my gear which is basically All BT and MH hunter gear and Kalecgos. Just waiting to down Brutalus to get some new goodies. We going tonight for our first post patch raid, so will let you know. Our best attempt on him pre-patch was 37% with us loosing a tank to a healing botch up ^^. Would have been nice to have 2/6SWP pre patch but sadly we didnt do it.

So back on topic, I will stay with my MM build for tonights raid and play with gear config keeping the Hit in mind based on new talents spent.

Regards

Little Fish
 
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Hurry the hell up Pornolio.******Edit: nm! you beauty.

I need to steal all your info before the raid tonight.
 
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Hehe... slacker orlac... I was thinking of posting a dummy 0/0/61 talent build for you. And then replace it with my real one tomorrow. :D

How is stuff going with muru ? you guys manage to down him before the patch nerf?
 
haha ill swap you that 0/0/61 spec for a Dummies Guide to driving over a bridge!

Muru still lives, he should die tonight I hope, really keen to get my pets teeth into KJ.
 
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